Getting Started with FTA

[Trip]

Hello, all!

After spending a number of years investigating FTA, I finally more or less dove into it. I took some pictures and wrote up my experience on my website: Free-to-Air Satellite Done Dirt Cheap - RabbitEars Blog

So now that I have it up and running, I want to fine-tune it to some extent since I've got a lot of transponders that are not decoding anything even though they're showing signal strength. I moved the LNB around enough to get Al Jazeera up to 66-67% on my receiver, with 65% being needed for a clean decode. A lot of the weaker transponders are sitting at 60-62%, below decoding. I'm thinking that the problem is no longer the location of the LNB, now that I've fine-tuned that, and that the dish itself needs to be tweaked.

Any opinions on this? If it's the dish itself, then I'll probably just leave it and do without the other channels, but if my LNB placement can be further adjusted, I'll definitely do that.

Thanks, all.

- Trip

 

[turbosat]

Once you get a studier mount and tweak the aim of the dish, you should be able to get most of the channels on that satellite.
For a temporary fix, I guess it isn't bad! But you really need a stable, vertical pole to mount the dish on, that won't slide or tilt in the wind. Dishes that come with their own feedhorn usually work best with that feedhorn, as it keeps the exact focal distance for optimal signal,but using a simple little lnbf like you have there will work too.

 

[Trip]

I looked at the feedhorn that came with it and couldn't figure out how I would attach that to an LNB. Is there some trick to it? Because I can put it back on if there's a way to do that.

- Trip

 

[eurosport]

I saw your LNB mount. Iceberg would be proud!

 

[SatelliteAV]

A linear LNB should be able to be mounted on the original feed horn and will provide a superior signal compared to the after market generic LNBF. The LNBF that you have attached is designed to receive signals from a rounded and less oblong shaped dish, but you should receive signals just fine if it is placed in the exact position as the original feed horn.

It does not appear that the LNBF rotation (Skew) is properly set for Virginia to receive the linear polarized signals. This might be just the angle that the photograph was taken, but this is very critical to optimize the Signal Quality. The Skew setting for your LNBF (or complete dish / LNBF) on the east coast for Galaxy 19 should be approximately positive 20 degrees ( counter clockwise if viewed while standing in front of the dish looking into the reflector). The Signal Quality reading may also be maximized by sliding the LNBF towards or way from the reflector.

 

[Trip]

On the back of the dish are some bolts that allow it to rotate with numbers showing the degrees of skew. Dishpointer.com said it should be 22 degrees, so I set it at that value according to the back of the dish at least. Of course, those numbers assume the dish is on a plumb pole... maybe I'll add some more skew when time permits.

Or do you mean the LNB itself should be rotated? I can do that too.

- Trip

 

[SatelliteAV]

On the back of the dish are some bolts that allow it to rotate with numbers showing the degrees of skew. Dishpointer.com said it should be 22 degrees, so I set it at that value according to the back of the dish at least. Of course, those numbers assume the dish is on a plumb pole... maybe I'll add some more skew when time permits.

Or do you mean the LNB itself should be rotated? I can do that too.

- Trip

In your case, the rotating dish mount will provide the appropriate skew, but fine-tuning this setting will peak your quality. Also try sliding the LNBF in or away from the reflector to place the feed horn in the optimal position.

Is the new LNBF set at the same height as the original feed horn? Is it aimed at the same point in the reflector? As you can see, the dish is an offset design, so if the LNBF is not placed in the "Sweet Spot" or focal point of the reflector design, signals will not be optimally reflected into your new LNBF.

 

[Trip]

In your case, the rotating dish mount will provide the appropriate skew, but fine-tuning this setting will peak your quality. Also try sliding the LNBF in or away from the reflector to place the feed horn in the optimal position.

Okay, I will play with the skew when I have a chance. I already tried moving it closer and further and I've just about peaked it. I've seen solid 67% with flashes of 68%. Right now it's bouncing between 66% and 67% since I went out to put some electrical tape on the coax connection to prevent it from getting wet in tomorrow's rain.

Is the new LNBF set at the same height as the original feed horn? Is it aimed at the same point in the reflector? As you can see, the dish is an offset design, so if the LNBF is not placed in the "Sweet Spot" or focal point of the reflector design, signals will not be optimally reflected into your new LNBF.

I think it's ever so slightly higher than the feedhorn was, given that the arm was made to hold the feedhorn and I'm resting the LNB on top of that piece. As for how it's pointing, I think it's similar, though now that you mention it, I'm not sure. I have it resting with as much of it touching the piece on the end of the arm as possible, so I would hope that it's at least close.

- Trip

 

[Blindowl1234]

Trip, Keep at it and you'll get it. There's a lot of stuff to see on 97w. Also a bunch of radio channels. On a side note I thought I recognized the name Trip from the Cincinnati AVS forum. I'm a longtime lurker there..only posted a few times over the years though. Welcome to the wonderful world of FTA....Blind

 

[Conky]

have you tried peaking the lnb angle ? press down/up slightly at the end of the lnb

 

[Trip]

Trip, Keep at it and you'll get it. There's a lot of stuff to see on 97w. Also a bunch of radio channels. On a side note I thought I recognized the name Trip from the Cincinnati AVS forum. I'm a longtime lurker there..only posted a few times over the years though. Welcome to the wonderful world of FTA....Blind

Thanks.

have you tried peaking the lnb angle ? press down/up slightly at the end of the lnb

Yes, I've done this since my rope isn't exactly the sturdiest method of attachment. I've found lots of positions where it's there but not strong enough, and exactly one where it maxes out, so far.

Thanks, all, for the help thus far. When the weather clears up and my schedule clears out, I will try to heed some of the advice offered here.

- Trip

 

[Trip]

Hello again, all:

I'm now home for Spring Break. At Winterfest on Sunday the 27th, I found a round 30" dish with LNB for $10 and decided to use it with a mast we had at the radio club in order to do a setup at home. I have set it up and have excellent success.

I've got Al Jazeera at 67-69%, higher than I've ever seen this box go, and almost everything scans in. I'll be taking some pictures and whatnot later in the day, but for now, I have a few questions.

1) Is 12177 the weakest transponder up there? It scanned in without labels and doesn't decode anything, not that I'm missing it.

2) Why does Press TV fail to scan in? If I manually set the PIDs, it's perfectly watchable, but on a manual scan of the transponder or blind scan, it doesn't show up.

3) My box now no longer seems to scan in 12053, where Al Jazeera is, on blind scan. It only scans it in when I do a manual scan of that transponder, in which case it scans them in instantly.

4) 11911 does not appear on Lyngsat, but seems to be up there with plenty of strength. Is this just an empty transponder?

I suspect 2 and 3 to just be quirks of my box, but I'd be really curious to know if there's some reason for it.

Also, unrelated, but I noted that the box's firmware has the label "NORW" in it, which does not match the label of any of the firmware I found on the website here. What is it? Is it what I suspect it to be; namely, firmware for pirating commercial content? If so, is it safe to overwrite with the firmware available here, since I am only interested in free-to-air content? COOLSAT 6000 version .06 - Downloads - SatelliteGuys.US

Thanks for your time. =)

- Trip

 

[turbosat]

There is , or was, a third party software writer that re-wrote some of the Coolsat models firmware, making some improvements. It could be software you are running came from that site. Not owning any Coolsats I'm not sure. If it blind-scans ok I think I'd leave it alone. As for the difference in frequencies, some receiver/lnb combinations may produce slightly changed tp numbers. I have one receiver that picks up one published tp I can think of ( 12053 mhz) at 12057.....so being off a few mhz won't matter. If you're not getting some of the transponders at all, could be the dish/lnb skew. Check to make sure you're getting both horizontal and vertical, if one polarity is much stronger it could be the skew needs tweaking.

 

[Blindowl1234]

I've run across a few transponders on 97w that even my Sathawk receiver skips over. The transponders were already loaded in the receiver so I scanned just that tp and the receiver found the channels it missed. If the lnb is off just a little that will also cause it to skip as well...Blind

 

[AcWxRadar]

Hello again, all...

...I noted that the box's firmware has the label "NORW" in it, which does not match the label of any of the firmware I found on the website here. What is it? Is it what I suspect it to be; namely, firmware for pirating commercial content? If so, is it safe to overwrite with the firmware available here, since I am only interested in free-to-air content? COOLSAT 6000 version .06 - Downloads - SatelliteGuys.US

Thanks for your time. =)

- Trip

Hi Trip,

You are doing well! Hope you have read all the stickies. I am sure you realize (if youve been reading) that you have a very nice FTA standard definition receiver in the CS 6K! Don't let it out of your hands!

As for the firmware "NORW", that is a hack thing. You can use it just fine for FTA. If you want to overwrite it with the legit firmware, you may do so easily. There is nothing special that you need to be concerned about, you cannot hose up this box. It is pretty foolproof that way. About the only thing you will have to do is re-scan your channels and reset a few simple menu items to your personal preference. If you research Channel Master by SharpC, you will find a very nice channel and sat / TP editor. You won't be able to directly communicate between the box and that program, you will have to use a special "loader" program to accompany it as a go-between, but it is pretty easy to use.

You can bypass having to rescan channels when you put a legit firmware into it by using Channel Master, but you will still have to reset the settings for everything. If you are not too deeply involved in how many satellites you have entered at this time, I would go ahead and install the legit firmware now and then start over from scratch as it will be more friendly for you now.

RADAR

 

[Trip]

Hello again, all:

First of all, I have photographs. Free-to-Air Satellite Done Dirt Cheap: Home Edition - RabbitEars Blog

I've run across a few transponders on 97w that even my Sathawk receiver skips over. The transponders were already loaded in the receiver so I scanned just that tp and the receiver found the channels it missed. If the lnb is off just a little that will also cause it to skip as well...Blind

Interesting. I wonder what oddities might be causing this irregularity.

Hi Trip,

You are doing well! Hope you have read all the stickies. I am sure you realize (if youve been reading) that you have a very nice FTA standard definition receiver in the CS 6K! Don't let it out of your hands!

I'm glad to hear it. I do want to ultimately get a box that will do AC3/DVB-S2/HD, but that's down the line when I have a permanent and motorized setup with which I can bypass my irritating local PBS in favor of AMC21.

I wish the manual was more helpful though. I went through a bunch of trouble setting up a favorites list a few blind scans ago only to realize that I have no idea how to actually access it anywhere besides the "Edit Favorites" menu!

As for the firmware "NORW", that is a hack thing. You can use it just fine for FTA. If you want to overwrite it with the legit firmware, you may do so easily. There is nothing special that you need to be concerned about, you cannot hose up this box. It is pretty foolproof that way. About the only thing you will have to do is re-scan your channels and reset a few simple menu items to your personal preference. If you research Channel Master by SharpC, you will find a very nice channel and sat / TP editor. You won't be able to directly communicate between the box and that program, you will have to use a special "loader" program to accompany it as a go-between, but it is pretty easy to use.

Cool, thanks. The firmware I linked says something about "beep tone in dish setup" which is unclear, but if it's like the signal meter on the Zenith digital TV converter box that beeps differently depending on the signal level, then that's a feature I could really make use of. Do you, or anyone else reading, happen to know if that's what that means? If that's not it, then I don't have a reason to do anything to the firmware I don't think.

You can bypass having to rescan channels when you put a legit firmware into it by using Channel Master, but you will still have to reset the settings for everything. If you are not too deeply involved in how many satellites you have entered at this time, I would go ahead and install the legit firmware now and then start over from scratch as it will be more friendly for you now.

There are lots of satellites loaded in, but I've only ever looked at Galaxy 19, as it's the only one with content that I strongly desire that the box will decode. So no investment at all really.

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and encouragement. It is much appreciated.

- Trip

 

[AcWxRadar]

Hello again, all:

Cool, thanks. The firmware I linked says something about "beep tone in dish setup" which is unclear, but if it's like the signal meter on the Zenith digital TV converter box that beeps differently depending on the signal level, then that's a feature I could really make use of. Do you, or anyone else reading, happen to know if that's what that means? If that's not it, then I don't have a reason to do anything to the firmware I don't think.

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and encouragement. It is much appreciated.

- Trip

Trip,

Yes, that is what the "beep tone in dish setup" or "BEEP ON SIGNAL" means exacty. It changes tone or pitch and as the signal quality increases, the tone or pitch increases. This is very handy when you are outside in the sun with a portable TV for alignment. You sometimes cannot see the signal level bars on the TV very well with the glare. The tone really makes it simple.

I like to take a folding table outside (if I am playing with my dish in the yard - not on the roof ) and set the TV inside a deep cardboard box on the table so that the sun doesn't interfere with me trying to view the screen.

RADAR

 

[turbosat]

trip, I looked at your pictures last night, and again tonight. Depending on how your dish is aimed , looks to me just from your first 2 pictures that you might be peeking through some tree branches. That could be part of the problem, when the leaves come back out-you'll know for sure. It's really hard to tell from that 2nd pic though, those offset dishes will fool you, and actually be looking OVER a tree that looks to be blocking it sometimes!

 

[Trip]

Yes, that is what the "beep tone in dish setup" or "BEEP ON SIGNAL" means exacty. It changes tone or pitch and as the signal quality increases, the tone or pitch increases. This is very handy when you are outside in the sun with a portable TV for alignment. You sometimes cannot see the signal level bars on the TV very well with the glare. The tone really makes it simple.

Indeed, it's a useful feature in dealing with terrestrial antennas as well, as I do significantly more often. I just noticed that the feature exists in the firmware that's currently installed, so since I don't have a straight-through serial cable (only null-modem), I'll hold off on replacing the firmware.

Thanks for the clarification.

I like to take a folding table outside (if I am playing with my dish in the yard - not on the roof ) and set the TV inside a deep cardboard box on the table so that the sun doesn't interfere with me trying to view the screen.

Makes sense to me.

trip, I looked at your pictures last night, and again tonight. Depending on how your dish is aimed , looks to me just from your first 2 pictures that you might be peeking through some tree branches. That could be part of the problem, when the leaves come back out-you'll know for sure. It's really hard to tell from that 2nd pic though, those offset dishes will fool you, and actually be looking OVER a tree that looks to be blocking it sometimes!

Yeah, I know I'm looking through the tree. I realized it when at one point I was seeing signal but couldn't get it high enough for a picture. I'll be anxious to see how it is when the leaves come out; I'm hoping that I'm looking over top of the tree now (I moved it back from where I started, so it's more likely to be looking over the top than it was at first).

It's raining again this evening and, so far, my signal's holding out at 65-66% on 12152, even though most of the rest have fallen to 63%. I'm hoping that this means my aim is now sufficient to hold it during all but the heaviest of showers. (As I said, all I'm really worried about is AJE and RT, so the other transponders don't worry me.)

I'm considering trying for AMC21 on the next nice day, just to see if I can get it, but I may not given that I now seem to have a good aim set up for G19 and I'd rather not screw it up. I'm assuming that this box will pass AC3 out of the optical jack on the back but otherwise will not decode it, is that correct?

Thanks again, folks.

- Trip

 

[AcWxRadar]

I'm assuming that this box will pass AC3 out of the optical jack on the back but otherwise will not decode it, is that correct?

Thanks again, folks.

- Trip

Yes Trip,

You are correct on this assumption. Your TV or audio system (or HTS) will have to do that job or you will have to get a converter (I don't recall what it is called right off the top of my head right now), but there is a device that can be used to decode the AC3 audio for you. My HTS accepted and transcoded that audio so I didn't have to fret about buying anything special, I just plugged it in and listened!

RADAR