Old Movies Are No Longer An Excuse for Poor PQ

DarrellP

I Think, therefore, I am.
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Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
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Salem, OR
:mad: Everyone tries to defend Voom's PQ blaming it on old transfers. Well, tonight I flipped through 3 different movies that were made in the 90's and guess what? Skeeter noise, soft, lacking depth, compression noise, etc. The only thing to blame for this is over compression. :mad:

Let the defenders reply. ;)

FWIW, this will be my last topic on poor PQ (that I initiate) until Voom gets the new encoders up and running, or until the end of March 2005, which ever comes first. That's my deadline Voom, bring it on.
 
5 hours and you haven't been ripped up yet,guess thats cause you posted early in the morning.As the sun rises high in the sky-beware,they will tear you apart like sharks after an injured whale
 
DarrellP said:
:mad: Everyone tries to defend Voom's PQ blaming it on old transfers. Well, tonight I flipped through 3 different movies that were made in the 90's and guess what? Skeeter noise, soft, lacking depth, compression noise, etc. The only thing to blame for this is over compression. :mad:

Let the defenders reply. ;)

FWIW, this will be my last topic on poor PQ (that I initiate) until Voom gets the new encoders up and running, or until the end of March 2005, which ever comes first. That's my deadline Voom, bring it on.

Not every HD transfer is created equal. I can find three as well that looked well. By the same token I can find some that look well on HDnet Movies and some that do not. So does it mean the same for HDnet movies if I do not see something that looks aceptable to my eyes? :confused: How about Master and Commander on HBO HD. That HD transfered looked like crap and the DVD looked a lot better. Does it mean that HBO HD is also bad PQ both on Dish and VOOM? :confused:
 
Sean,
I think those are great points. Like Darrell, I questioned why some movies look better from different providers. Someone mentioned earlier about watching 'My Fair Lady' on Voom and then seeing it on INHD. I also saw the movie (not all of it...not my type of movie) and I agree with that person. The INHD showing of that movie looked better.

But I really believe that there is some consumer confusion about HD Transfers of movies. I for one thought that a movie is migrated to HD and then the movie is distributed to the separate providers. From what you are saying, Sean, I gather individual providers perform individual HD transfers thus creating different PQ during viewing.

If this a the case, is there an industry standard to performing HD transfers that would ensure optimum PQ?
 
mkwillia said:
Sean,
I think those are great points. Like Darrell, I questioned why some movies look better from different providers. Someone mentioned earlier about watching 'My Fair Lady' on Voom and then seeing it on INHD. I also saw the movie (not all of it...not my type of movie) and I agree with that person. The INHD showing of that movie looked better.

But I really believe that there is some consumer confusion about HD Transfers of movies. I for one thought that a movie is migrated to HD and then the movie is distributed to the separate providers. From what you are saying, Sean, I gather individual providers perform individual HD transfers thus creating different PQ during viewing.

If this a the case, is there an industry standard to performing HD transfers that would ensure optimum PQ?

You bring a great point as well. The way I understand it is that for example, Miramax controls all the HD transfers. Some of these transfers are not all going to look the same since the master of each movie is subject to how it was kept. So we see different movies and see different PQ.

In order to see whether the channel is not giving enough bandwith to movie, we need to watch the same the HD Transfer on two different providers. The HD transfer needs to be the same on both (OAR or not). The TV needs to be calibrated for both. For example, on Dish the stb send more brightness to my tv and so I had to calibrate for this while on VOOM the brightness is quite down and you need to adjust for it.

Not to say that I have the perfect calibration scheme on both of my HDTVs but I have made comparisons of HD transfers on HDnet movies (Dish) and HD Cinema (Voom). One that comes to mine is the Lady in Red. An 1:85:1 HD transfer shown on both channels and both providers. I found no significant difference in both. I also compared the A Choru's Line (OAR on both) and found the same.

The mistakes are made when

1- someone takes the Lord of the Ring DVD or HD transfer and expects the same PQ from "the Good, the Bad and the Ugly" or

2- comparing two different HD Transfers on two different providers or

3- comparing OAR DVDs with cropped HD transfers or viceversa.

Another comparison that can be made is comparing the DVD to the HD transfer. This surely will not give you as much information but the HD Transfer should always win over the DVD transfer otherwise there is something wrong. Again both versions need to be OAR or both versions need to be cropped.

In summary:

In order to do a fair comparison:

1 - watch the same HD transfers on both providers for both channels. Watch the same parts on both (very important). Be careful to compare same aspect ratio transfers only.

2 - watch the DVD of the movie. The DVD should always look inferior to the HD transfer. Be careful to compare the same aspect ratio.

3- make sure you calibrate for both providers as stb may not be sending black levels at the same level.

4- most important of all do not go into the analysis with pre-existing conditions and be fair about your observations.

This is not going to give you 100% accuracy but it will give you a ball park figure (sort of speak) where the HD transfers stand.
 
The only thing to blame

DarrellP said:
FWIW, this will be my last topic on poor PQ (that I initiate) until Voom gets the new encoders up and running, or until the end of March 2005, which ever comes first. That's my deadline Voom, bring it on.
Voom can't keep their own deadlines. Do you really expect them to keep yours?
So long DarrellP....
 
voomvoom said:
Voom can't keep their own deadlines. Do you really expect them to keep yours?
So long DarrellP....
voomvoom, I didn't say I was leaving Voom if they don't meet my deadline, I said I would not create any new posts about poor PQ until then. There is no way I am giving up Voom, I am just going to hammer them to death on PQ until they get it right. :yes

I have yet to see ONE movie on Voom that did not suffer from overcompression. :mad: I have also seen movies on HDNET that looked superb and the same movie on Voom was so-so. What does that tell me? That Voom is not giving their channels enough bandwidth. PERIOD. :no

I will give them until March when the new encoders are supposedly supposed to be operating, then I will start hammering them again. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, right? If you guys are content with the PQ on Voom, so be it, but I am not, and you should not be either. Would you be content with an 8 cylinder car that ran on 7 cylinders? I think not. ;)
 
The movie Master and Commander was on D* the same night that it was on VOOM.The master signal that D*,E*,and VOOM get is then sent to customers,while I think that movie stinks the rest of the family wanted to watch it.As far as PQ,is was by far better on HBOHD than it would have been on DVD,D*'s PQ on that movie was great,maybe VOOM had issues with their feed
 
FWIW, DVD's do NOT have Skeeter noise. I'll take the reduced resolution anyday.
 
Hay lets get over this crap of calibrating this and that lets just have a good feed -VOOM does not--lets not have to reset stb's in the middle of a show,or reboot in the morining when you want to watch the news before you go to work.I have had D* for over 8 years and from day one never had a problem.

I read the VOOM form and I see how people reboot here and there,unplug this and that,wait for the tech,I signed up for VOOM 6/23/04 have not activaly purseded them,but they can't seem to get it together long enough to make an install,call when I am not here and when told to call back at 7:00pm never do,you are talking about a company that was planed in the begining with no thought other than to catch the HD fans and it's has not even gotten close,Why most people will watch their locals before they will watch a1965 movie that they have no desire to see,I have heard people say VOOM is cutting edge---only if the edge has been used on stone and dulled to the point of no return.
 
branchbouncer said:
Hay lets get over this crap of calibrating this and that lets just have a good feed -VOOM does not--lets not have to reset stb's in the middle of a show,or reboot in the morining when you want to watch the news before you go to work.I have had D* for over 8 years and from day one never had a problem.

I read the VOOM form and I see how people reboot here and there,unplug this and that,wait for the tech,I signed up for VOOM 6/23/04 have not activaly purseded them,but they can't seem to get it together long enough to make an install,call when I am not here and when told to call back at 7:00pm never do,you are talking about a company that was planed in the begining with no thought other than to catch the HD fans and it's has not even gotten close,Why most people will watch their locals before they will watch a1965 movie that they have no desire to see,I have heard people say VOOM is cutting edge---only if the edge has been used on stone and dulled to the point of no return.

Completely disagree with you. Not going to counteract every point.
 

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