Red Screen of Death for Blu-Ray

My oops on the 1080p/24 fps. The XA-1 only supports up to 1080i. Therefore, the XA-1, the least expensive of the HD-DVD players and the one that has sold the most to date does not do 1080p at all:

globeandmail.com: Toshiba HD-XA1 HD-DVD player

The other HD-DVD players do support 1080p. The new HD-A3 is only a 1080i HD-DVD player:

HD DVD Product Information and News : Toshiba

Seems that not all HD-DVD players support 1080p. Toshiba's point of view is that there are alot of HDTVs that do not do 1080p so there is no need to support that mode on all of their players.

Does that mean if you purchase a new HDTV that does 1080p that you are going to have to buy a new HD-DVD player. Seems most posts that I read the supporters of HD-DVD are purchasing the lower cost player. How does that play into the consumers upgrade plans when they shop for a new HDTV?

I would like to know the number of HD-DVD standalones that do not support at least 1080p -- anyone know?
 
I could have sworn that M$ called it "J++" (subsequently "J#"). The pissing match was over the M$ JVM that I'm pretty sure was removed from Windows distributions years ago.

I think that what happened was that M$ came up with windows media player and with the launch of Microsoft Windows 98 and named it Microsoft Java Virtual Machine. They called this MSJVM (as you stated). Sun Microsystems introduced Java in 1995. Sun Microsystems sued and M$ lost.

http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/microsoft/sunms122302opn.pdf

I hoped this helped with the discussion.
 
My oops on the 1080p/24 fps. The XA-1 only supports up to 1080i. Therefore, the XA-1, the least expensive of the HD-DVD players and the one that has sold the most to date does not do 1080p at all.

Two out of three ain't bad. :D
Correct, the XA1 supports up to 1080i - as does my Sony HDTV, so they've been a good match for over a year & a half now. However, the XA1 is/was not the "least expensive" HD DVD players - it is in fact one of the most expensive. When introduced in April 2006, the A1 had a MSRP of $499, the XA1 was priced at $799. I don't have sales stats for individual models, but with it's pricing I would expect the XA1 to be the lowest selling model so far. I do know the A2 is by far the largest selling model. :)

The other HD-DVD players do support 1080p. The new HD-A3 is only a 1080i HD-DVD player. Seems that not all HD-DVD players support 1080p. Toshiba's point of view is that there are alot of HDTVs that do not do 1080p so there is no need to support that mode on all of their players.

Yes, I'm sure Toshiba has in mind that the large majority of HDTV's sold to date do not support 1080p. But Toshiba's strategy in almost all of its product offering is to provide a three-tier pricing / product offering: Good / Better / Best.

For their 2nd Gen HD DVD Players:

A2: Lowest cost, max output 1080i - perfect match for 90% of HDTV owners.

A20: Mid-level, max output 1080p - good match for those with newer, more expensive HDTVs with 1080p input.

XA2: Top of the line, max output 1080p, Reon processor for superior upscaling, analog audio output for high-def audio with non-HDMI AV receivers.

The new 3rd Gen HD DVD players:

A3: Lowest cost, max output 1080i - perfect match for 90% of HDTV owners.

A30:Mid-level, max output 1080p - good match for those with newer, more expensive HDTVs with 1080p input.

A35:Top of the line, max output 1080p, analog audio output for high-def audio with non-HDMI AV receivers, HDMI 1.3a for bitstream output of high-def audio for the new HDMI 1.3 receivers to decode.

Does that mean if you purchase a new HDTV that does 1080p that you are going to have to buy a new HD-DVD player. Seems most posts that I read the supporters of HD-DVD are purchasing the lower cost player. How does that play into the consumers upgrade plans when they shop for a new HDTV?

Only for the very few purists. Their new 1080p HDTV is going to (hopefully) do an excellent job of displaying the max 1080i input from cable/sat/ota broadcasts in 1080p; the Tv should also do an excellent job of displaying the 1080i input from an HD DVD player in 1080p.

I would like to know the number of HD-DVD standalones that do not support at least 1080p -- anyone know?

Please see above. It's odd that the BD supporters who criticize Toshiba for "flooding the market" with HD players and suggest that with the low cost Toshiba must be "subsidizing" the cost now criticize Toshiba's strategy of controlling costs by offering higher end features only on the 2nd & 3rd tier players at higher price points for those discerning consumers who want them. :rolleyes:

And Sony plays exactly the same game. Yes, their entry level player model - the 300 - supports 1080p for the 90% of HDTV owners who can't make use of it because Sony sees it as a marketing tool. But, want high-def audio decoding for TrueHD? Oh, well - you need to step up to our higher end model at almost twice the cost. Or buy our game machine thing - that has an interface far beyond the comprehension of Mr. & Mrs. J6P and requires a separate remote at additional cost that is incompatible with every other remote the consumer might have. :rolleyes:
 
Does that mean if you purchase a new HDTV that does 1080p that you are going to have to buy a new HD-DVD player. Seems most posts that I read the supporters of HD-DVD are purchasing the lower cost player. How does that play into the consumers upgrade plans when they shop for a new HDTV?
Did you throw away your 1080i TV when you put a 1080p unit in its place? As long as you have the 1080i TV, your investment in 1080i sources can remain with it.

It becomes even more interesting when you consider that the purchase of two HD DVD units, one 1080i and one 1080p, is likely cheaper than a single Blu-Ray unit.
 
My oops on the 1080p/24 fps. The XA-1 only supports up to 1080i. Therefore, the XA-1, the least expensive of the HD-DVD players and the one that has sold the most to date does not do 1080p at all:

globeandmail.com: Toshiba HD-XA1 HD-DVD player

The other HD-DVD players do support 1080p. The new HD-A3 is only a 1080i HD-DVD player:

HD DVD Product Information and News : Toshiba

Seems that not all HD-DVD players support 1080p. Toshiba's point of view is that there are alot of HDTVs that do not do 1080p so there is no need to support that mode on all of their players.

Does that mean if you purchase a new HDTV that does 1080p that you are going to have to buy a new HD-DVD player. Seems most posts that I read the supporters of HD-DVD are purchasing the lower cost player. How does that play into the consumers upgrade plans when they shop for a new HDTV?

I would like to know the number of HD-DVD standalones that do not support at least 1080p -- anyone know?
Funny how I get perfect 1080p from my TV and HD-A1. Keep the BluRay FUD rollin Joe, they need you.
 
Funny how I get perfect 1080p from my TV and HD-A1. Keep the BluRay FUD rollin Joe, they need you.

Depends on what is changing the interlaced signal to deinterlaced (player or TV) does it make a difference? Not really if its a nice TV.

HD-DVD and BD disc structure is like this according to research and sources:

Supported video formats for Bluray is 1920x1080/24p and 1920x1080/50i/60i. Supported format for HD-DVD is 1920x1080/24p/25p/30p and 1920x1080/50i/60i.

The input format for both BD/HD DVD is 1080p24 for movies. See bottom for 60p support.

BD's are encoded at 1080p24. PLayers and sets that are capable of 24p, the signal is sent to the player natively. For players (and or TV's) that don't support 24fps, BD players convert it to 1080i/60 inserting "repeat field flags" and then back to progressive. For TV's that don't accept/support 1080p, the 1080i signal is sent to the TV.

HD-DVD's use 60i timing for 24p (encoded progressively, replacing missing fields with "repeat field flags"). Decoders ignore the “flags” to output 24p. SO on the disc you have 1080p30. For TVs that support 1080p (but not 24fps, most) the signal is doubled and sent straight to the TV. For TV's that don't accept/support 1080p (either through inputs or native resolution), the HD-DVD player interlaces the signal.

Ultimately the result is exactly the same.

These players can also output 1080p60 but doing this "right" is complicated. The player can be playing the movie at 24p one minute, and the extras in 60i the next. So instead of just repeating the 24p frames to get 60, some players feed the stream to a processor to synthesize 60p, whether it is video/interlace content or progressive (24p). The quality of such processing varies though with some producing good quality, others not as good.

In general, you don't want to use 1080p60 because it does not match the frame rate of movies. You want to use a player and display which supports 24p. Then you have everything you need. A cinema series (120HZ) is optimal since it is a multiple of 24 and 30/60. But these are new to consumers this year and how many people have one? Not me. Maybe in a few years.

S~
 
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Whew! That was alot of good info there teachsac. Thanks:up
 
The thing that puzzles me, is that I fail to see how essentially bricking all 1st and some 2nd gen players which run 700-$1000 dollars because you're paranoid about pirates or GOD FORBID (GASP!!!!!) SOMEONE LIKE MYSELF WHO ACTUALLY WANTS TO BACK UP THE MOVIES TO PRESERVE THEM FOR LEGITIMATE USE, actually helps your business model (yes, I am a slysoft user-best damn money I ever spent Joe, and no I don't post movies to the internet). I am sick of companies that inhibit technology and burn the honest customer. Now, you want to burn the customer base that spends the most money on your product (not smart). Do you really think everyone is that tech savy or has the ability to hook up their players to the internet in every setting. Heck, do you think the average consumer reads forums like this one (probably not is my guess)? BD+ is going way to far off the reservation, I am soo glad i'm in the HD-DVD camp now. I know if just spent $600 a new 2nd gen samsung etc, player that wouldn't work because companies like FOX are part of the cult of jack ass Jack Valenti, I would be raising hell. Can you say CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT, hmmmmmm?
 
It's odd that the BD supporters who criticize Toshiba for "flooding the market" with HD players and suggest that with the low cost Toshiba must be "subsidizing" the cost ...
That argument from them has never held water to me.

A. Toshiba doesn't have that kind of money to throw around compared to the consortium of companies in the BDA.

B. If one were to compare prices for Toshiba SD DVD players and recorders in general to other Japanese big-name-brand players and recorders (Sony, Panasonic, JVC, etc), Toshiba is usually among the lowest priced models.

It simply appears that Toshiba is just generally a bargain brand among Japanese CE companies.
 
You're the only person I've seen doubt that Toshiba was subsidizing. If they aren't, why aren't there several other manufacturers of HD DVD players? They're barely getting anyone else now, after around 18 months of cost reductions.