Understanding Frequencies once and for all

[kelleyga]

OK, I want to nail this one.

I go to lyngsat and see this on AMC9 as an example:

Freq = 11745 V
Provider = XXXX
Video = DVB
etc

I go to lyngsat and see this on PAS 9 as an example and see:

Freq = 11612 H
Provider = Cubavision
etc..

Now, I know a regular ku LNB will give me the first channel but not the second one because cuba vision needs a different LNB. So when I go and try to buy an LNB, how or what in the description tells me the frequencies.

As an example this LNB:

Input freq. range: 11.70GHz~12.20GHz
L.o. frequency: 10.75GHz
L.o. stability: 2MHz (-40 to +70 degree Celsius)
Output freq. range: 950GHz~1450GHz
Control signals:
Low band: Ca or Cb (see below)
High band: Ca and Cc or Cb
Noise figure: 0.4dB typ.
Conversion gain: 55dB typ.
Input VSWR: 2.5:1
Output VSWR: 2.0:1 (max.)
Output connector: F-female connector
Output impedance: 75 ohms typ.
Cross polar isolation: 20dB (min.)
Image rejection: 45dB
Phase noise:
-50dBc @ 1KHz
-75dBc @ 10KHz
-95dBc @ 100KHz
Supply voltage:
Ca: 11.5 to 14.0V (vertical polarization)
13 VDC typ.Cb: 16.0 to 19.0V (horizontal polarization)
18 VDC typ.


Now the LNB above is a linear, but there are different ones out there, circular, universal, etc.

So, lets say I want to make sure this LNB listed above will allow me to get the 2 channels I listed at the beginning. How do I do it?

I have seen before where Iceberg tells us how the frequencies go for Linear, Circular, or Cubavision, or Directv LA, etc, but how do I match that to the description of the LNB I want to buy.

From lyngsat all I get is something like this:

Freq = 11745 V

but when I go to buy an LNB their descriptions say:

Input freq. range: 11.70GHz~12.20GHz

How do I match those two different animals?

Does Input freq. range: 11.70GHz~12.20GHz MEANS it covers frequencies from ELEVEN THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED TO TWELVE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRE?

Then if that is the case my channel FREQ = 11745 will be in that range that then the LNB will work.

Is that how it is done?

 

[Mr Tony]

Freq = 11745 V

but when I go to buy an LNB their descriptions say:

Input freq. range: 11.70GHz~12.20GHz

How do I match those two different animals?

Does Input freq. range: 11.70GHz~12.20GHz MEANS it covers frequencies from ELEVEN THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED TO TWELVE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRE?

Then if that is the case my channel FREQ = 11745 will be in that range that then the LNB will work.

Is that how it is done?

correct. There 2 types of KU Band LNB's....standard and universal
Universal will say it handles frequencies from 10.7-12.75 Ghz and will have 2 LNB LO's of 9750 & 10600.
Standard will show exactly what you have above there (11.70-12-20Ghz) LNB LO 10750

Here in the US there are a couple of satellites that a Universal LNB is needed but those are the Atlantic satellites (PAS9 for example where Cubavision Int'l is)

In Europe a Universal is pretty much needed as the KU satellites have frequencies from 10.7-12.75 GHz. Here in the US, 12.2-12.75Ghz is used for DBS (Dish/Direct/ExpressVu)

Advantage of Universal-gets those lower frequencies
Disadvantage of Universal-if you have more than one LNB, you NEED to use a Diseqc switch. Can't use a 22k switch as the Universal LNB has an internal 22k switch (to switch between low and high)

So when you check Lyngsat or thelist, as long as the frequency is above 11700 a Standard will work

 

[kelleyga]

So then, the description on the LNB for sale will be given as

10.7-12.75 GHz

I can traslate then to match Lynsat as

10700 to 12750

So any Lyngsat Frequency that falls in that range will be OK for that specifi LNB (of course making the difference for V/H or R/L )

 

[updatelee]

just subtract the lof/h from the freq and see if its still in the lband.

11745 - 10750 = 995
11612 - 10750 = 862

see how 862 is too low ? its below the lband's freq range

11612 - 10600 = 1012

there you go, now your within the lband.

satellite receiver dont accually tune ku or c or ka bands, they all tune the L band, the lnb just converts it to the L band for the ird to tune.

 

[Mr Tony]

So then, the description on the LNB for sale will be given as

10.7-12.75 GHz

I can traslate then to match Lynsat as

10700 to 12750

So any Lyngsat Frequency that falls in that range will be OK for that specifi LNB (of course making the difference for V/H or R/L )

yep
Universal LNB's will cover all the frequencies that Standard ones do

 

[jayelem]

I love the Universal LNB , but . . . . ever since I slaved the Analog receiver and 4DTV to my Coolsat 5000 I had to go with a Standard Linear for proper reception.

So that would be my beef with the Universal , on the other hand I really did enjoy blind scanning the Atlantic Sats and I remember needing the Universal on 45.0 west , 53.0 west , 58.0 west , and 72.0 west .

So maybe it's time to add a 2nd LNB to my dish so I can do both.

 

[Mr Tony]

Jayelem
Thats what I did....I can get 58W and 45W with the Universal and everything else with the Standard
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...rd-universal-dbs-one-dish.html?highlight=pas9

 

[Anole]

clearing the dust

For those who miss this in the link Iceberg gave above, the reason the Analog and 4DTV receivers don't like the Universal LNB is:

-I have an analog box slaved and the frequencies for Universal are different than a Standard (Universals are 150mhz off on an analog box)

The displayed frequencies are incorrect by 150 mhz (10750-10600=150mhz).
By inputting an LO frequency to our DVB receivers, it compensates for an LO of 10750 or 10600 or whatever else it might be.
Also, those other receivers (analog & 4dtv) don't have a way to command a Universal LNB to change frequency for its two bands.

Kinda makes ya wonder about really old European Analog receivers...

notes:
LO = local oscillator frequency
10750 mhz = 10.75 ghz
1000 mhz = 1 ghz

 

[Smith P.]

Would be correct to name it as LOF, ie Local Oscillator Frequency.

 

[updatelee]

lof/h comes from universal lnb's that are common all over the world.

lof/l = local oscillator frequency / low band
lof/h = local oscillator frequency / high band

here in NA we only use the high band, so its often refered to as a lof/h

 

[Mr Tony]

Would be correct to name it as LOF, ie Local Oscillator Frequency.

point being?
We also called it a LNB when technically its a LNBF.

Last I checked we didn't have an acronym police here

 

[Smith P.]

Well, if meaning don't bother you ... Go ahead, bro !

 

[kelleyga]

updatelee, Sorry I am so stupid, but where do you get the lband from to compare?

I got all your explanation about substracting the frequecy I get from Lyngsat for the channels I want to watch from the LO value, but then, you said to make sure it is within the lband's freq range? Where do I get that from ?
Thanks for educating me , I appreciate it.




just subtract the lof/h from the freq and see if its still in the lband.

11745 - 10750 = 995
11612 - 10750 = 862

see how 862 is too low ? its below the lband's freq range

11612 - 10600 = 1012

there you go, now your within the lband.

satellite receiver dont accually tune ku or c or ka bands, they all tune the L band, the lnb just converts it to the L band for the ird to tune.

 

[Mr Tony]

kelly
from a technical aspect, the L Band is usually between 950-2150....

so tyo figure out the L band take the frequency - the LNB LO

so 12000-10750 is 1250

Commercial receivers use the L Band and not the frequencies we all know and use

Easiest way to figure it out is if the transponder is below 11700 Ghz, you need a Universal

 

[Anole]

See if the few comments in this thread shed some light on the matter
http://www.satelliteguys.us/sadoun-...294-original-sf-95-signal-meter-question.html

 

[updatelee]

the receiver will tell you what freq it can tune in the specifications

Fortec Star Satellites

your'll see the fortec mercury II can tune between 950mhz and 2150mhz, this is a pretty common range, some might tune a little higher or lower, but pretty much it'll be in this range.

 

[kelleyga]

AHH, OK, Got it, finally

Thanks a lot to all of you for taking the time to educate me once again.

This hobby is so much fun.

 

[tifozi]

Jayelem
Thats what I did....I can get 58W and 45W with the Universal and everything else with the Standard
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-ai...rd-universal-dbs-one-dish.html?highlight=pas9

Are you able to get Transponders 25, 26, 27 from AMC6 using a standard LNB? Also couple of frequencies on Tp 23 look like they need a Univ LNB.

 

[updatelee]

10750 + 950 = 11700
10600 + 950 = 11550

now keep in mind some tuners will tune below 950mhz, like my spectrum analyzer will tune down to 920mhz, so using a universal lnb that would be 10600 + 920 = 11520, if the lnb will allow this, most will go alittle above and a little below.

 

[Mr Tony]

Are you able to get Transponders 25, 26, 27 from AMC6 using a standard LNB? Also couple of frequencies on Tp 23 look like they need a Univ LNB.

those transponders are for Naheul 1 which is aimed at South America/Latin America.

I can't pick those up in Minnesota but I do know in the Southern US they can