[VOOM] Re: Macro Blocking (Wilt please read)...

[Wilt Hildenbrand]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

On the new installs, many if not all of them, they still have the older
version of code. If when you're done watching today/tonight you hit the
power button on the remote to turn the box "off" it will go into standby
mode and sometime around 1:30am EDT it will take a newer rev.
You will get better signal level readings as well as a number of quality
and stability refinements.
Wilt

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Rogers [mailto:srogers1@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:33 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?



Just got my VOOM installed today, and I've been playing with it
side-by-side with my current cable TV. Mostly the VOOM picture is
better on SDTV channels where there's a fair comparison.

The only problem I've seen so far is that a couple of channels have
frequent sound drop-outs and macroblocking - TCM and Tennis are the
only two I've found so far. Unfortunately, TCM is one of the ones I
care about. Every 10-20 seconds, the picture gets seriously blocked, or
goes away, and the audio drops out. What's up with that? Does it mean
that there's something wrong with my dish alignment, or is it a
system-wide problem?

Related to that - my installer said that the signal level of 50 is
"normal" for Voom (I'm in central TX). Is that for real?

The volume is low on a few channels, but that's a minor issue.

I've heard a lot of complaints about installers. Mine were OK. Not the
greatest in terms of professionalism, but not too bad.

Thanks,
Steve



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[Wilt Hildenbrand]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

That's supposed to be 1:30am PST on that last message, sorry.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Rogers [mailto:srogers1@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:33 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?



Just got my VOOM installed today, and I've been playing with it
side-by-side with my current cable TV. Mostly the VOOM picture is
better on SDTV channels where there's a fair comparison.

The only problem I've seen so far is that a couple of channels have
frequent sound drop-outs and macroblocking - TCM and Tennis are the
only two I've found so far. Unfortunately, TCM is one of the ones I
care about. Every 10-20 seconds, the picture gets seriously blocked, or
goes away, and the audio drops out. What's up with that? Does it mean
that there's something wrong with my dish alignment, or is it a
system-wide problem?

Related to that - my installer said that the signal level of 50 is
"normal" for Voom (I'm in central TX). Is that for real?

The volume is low on a few channels, but that's a minor issue.

I've heard a lot of complaints about installers. Mine were OK. Not the
greatest in terms of professionalism, but not too bad.

Thanks,
Steve



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[Robert Heitner]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

How can we tell if we're running the old code or the new code?

_____

From: Wilt Hildenbrand [mailto:wilth@optonline.net]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:54 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


That's supposed to be 1:30am PST on that last message, sorry.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Rogers [mailto:srogers1@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:33 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?



Just got my VOOM installed today, and I've been playing with it
side-by-side with my current cable TV. Mostly the VOOM picture is
better on SDTV channels where there's a fair comparison.

The only problem I've seen so far is that a couple of channels have
frequent sound drop-outs and macroblocking - TCM and Tennis are the
only two I've found so far. Unfortunately, TCM is one of the ones I
care about. Every 10-20 seconds, the picture gets seriously blocked, or
goes away, and the audio drops out. What's up with that? Does it mean
that there's something wrong with my dish alignment, or is it a
system-wide problem?

Related to that - my installer said that the signal level of 50 is
"normal" for Voom (I'm in central TX). Is that for real?

The volume is low on a few channels, but that's a minor issue.

I've heard a lot of complaints about installers. Mine were OK. Not the
greatest in terms of professionalism, but not too bad.

Thanks,
Steve




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[Wilt Hildenbrand]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

Satellite

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Heitner [mailto:robert@ddpcorp.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:06 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


Does this require the phone connection or is the download via the satellite?

_____

From: Wilt Hildenbrand [mailto:wilth@optonline.net]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:53 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


On the new installs, many if not all of them, they still have the older
version of code. If when you're done watching today/tonight you hit the
power button on the remote to turn the box "off" it will go into standby
mode and sometime around 1:30am EDT it will take a newer rev.
You will get better signal level readings as well as a number of quality
and stability refinements.
Wilt

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Rogers [mailto:srogers1@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:33 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?



Just got my VOOM installed today, and I've been playing with it
side-by-side with my current cable TV. Mostly the VOOM picture is
better on SDTV channels where there's a fair comparison.

The only problem I've seen so far is that a couple of channels have
frequent sound drop-outs and macroblocking - TCM and Tennis are the
only two I've found so far. Unfortunately, TCM is one of the ones I
care about. Every 10-20 seconds, the picture gets seriously blocked, or
goes away, and the audio drops out. What's up with that? Does it mean
that there's something wrong with my dish alignment, or is it a
system-wide problem?

Related to that - my installer said that the signal level of 50 is
"normal" for Voom (I'm in central TX). Is that for real?

The volume is low on a few channels, but that's a minor issue.

I've heard a lot of complaints about installers. Mine were OK. Not the
greatest in terms of professionalism, but not too bad.

Thanks,
Steve






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[Robert Heitner]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

Thanks Wilt.. one last question.. will this also update my time? It's an
hour behind.

_____

From: Wilt Hildenbrand [mailto:wilth@optonline.net]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 4:14 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


Satellite

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Heitner [mailto:robert@ddpcorp.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:06 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


Does this require the phone connection or is the download via the satellite?

_____

From: Wilt Hildenbrand [mailto:wilth@optonline.net]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:53 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


On the new installs, many if not all of them, they still have the older
version of code. If when you're done watching today/tonight you hit the
power button on the remote to turn the box "off" it will go into standby
mode and sometime around 1:30am EDT it will take a newer rev.
You will get better signal level readings as well as a number of quality
and stability refinements.
Wilt

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Rogers [mailto:srogers1@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:33 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?



Just got my VOOM installed today, and I've been playing with it
side-by-side with my current cable TV. Mostly the VOOM picture is
better on SDTV channels where there's a fair comparison.

The only problem I've seen so far is that a couple of channels have
frequent sound drop-outs and macroblocking - TCM and Tennis are the
only two I've found so far. Unfortunately, TCM is one of the ones I
care about. Every 10-20 seconds, the picture gets seriously blocked, or
goes away, and the audio drops out. What's up with that? Does it mean
that there's something wrong with my dish alignment, or is it a
system-wide problem?

Related to that - my installer said that the signal level of 50 is
"normal" for Voom (I'm in central TX). Is that for real?

The volume is low on a few channels, but that's a minor issue.

I've heard a lot of complaints about installers. Mine were OK. Not the
greatest in terms of professionalism, but not too bad.

Thanks,
Steve







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[Ilya]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

> How can we tell if we're running the old code or the new code?

Here is the simplest way. On your VOOM remote, press "Help" and then "Info".
You should see three lines of version info. The last line should look like
this: "Nep:568", where 568 is the software version. Currently, 568 is the
latest released version. It is also referred to as "00.05.68". If the
Help-Info sequence doesn't work for you, you might have an older version.
Try this sequence instead: press "VOOM" button followed by "Info". You
should see a similar Version Info screen. The following three versions have
been officially released: 508, 55c and 568.

For further information check my VOOM STB FAQ at the following link:
www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=13946

Ilya.



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[Wilt Hildenbrand]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

Dead giveaway, old code..Yup.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Heitner [mailto:robert@ddpcorp.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:15 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


Thanks Wilt.. one last question.. will this also update my time? It's an
hour behind.

_____

From: Wilt Hildenbrand [mailto:wilth@optonline.net]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 4:14 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


Satellite

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Heitner [mailto:robert@ddpcorp.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:06 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


Does this require the phone connection or is the download via the satellite?

_____

From: Wilt Hildenbrand [mailto:wilth@optonline.net]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:53 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


On the new installs, many if not all of them, they still have the older
version of code. If when you're done watching today/tonight you hit the
power button on the remote to turn the box "off" it will go into standby
mode and sometime around 1:30am EDT it will take a newer rev.
You will get better signal level readings as well as a number of quality
and stability refinements.
Wilt

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Rogers [mailto:srogers1@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:33 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?



Just got my VOOM installed today, and I've been playing with it
side-by-side with my current cable TV. Mostly the VOOM picture is
better on SDTV channels where there's a fair comparison.

The only problem I've seen so far is that a couple of channels have
frequent sound drop-outs and macroblocking - TCM and Tennis are the
only two I've found so far. Unfortunately, TCM is one of the ones I
care about. Every 10-20 seconds, the picture gets seriously blocked, or
goes away, and the audio drops out. What's up with that? Does it mean
that there's something wrong with my dish alignment, or is it a
system-wide problem?

Related to that - my installer said that the signal level of 50 is
"normal" for Voom (I'm in central TX). Is that for real?

The volume is low on a few channels, but that's a minor issue.

I've heard a lot of complaints about installers. Mine were OK. Not the
greatest in terms of professionalism, but not too bad.

Thanks,
Steve








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[Ilya]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


> Thanks Wilt.. one last question.. will this also update my
> time? It's an hour behind.
>
Yes it will. Daylight Saving Time issue has been fixed in 568.

You asked Wilt, but I thought I would give Wilt a break.
It's Friday night already ;-)

Ilya.



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[Robert Heitner]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

Okay that worked. I'm on 508. I'll turn it off tonight and check the
version in the morning.

Thanks ya'all!!

Robert

_____

From: Ilya [mailto:ilya@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 4:23 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?


> How can we tell if we're running the old code or the new code?

Here is the simplest way. On your VOOM remote, press "Help" and then "Info".
You should see three lines of version info. The last line should look like
this: "Nep:568", where 568 is the software version. Currently, 568 is the
latest released version. It is also referred to as "00.05.68". If the
Help-Info sequence doesn't work for you, you might have an older version.
Try this sequence instead: press "VOOM" button followed by "Info". You
should see a similar Version Info screen. The following three versions have
been officially released: 508, 55c and 568.

For further information check my VOOM STB FAQ at the following link:
www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=13946

Ilya.



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[Ilya]

RE: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

> Is there a list somewhere that has what's been upgraded since 508 ?

Yes. Check these links about STB versions:

568: www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=11137

55c: www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=10485

508: www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=2466

Ilya.




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[Steven Rogers]

Re: [VOOM] Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?

On Jun 4, 2004, at 4:39 PM, VOOM@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Subject: RE: Newly VOOMing - macroblocking?
>
> On the new installs, many if not all of them, they still have the older
> version of code. If when you're done watching today/tonight you hit the
> power button on the remote to turn the box "off" it will go into
> standby
> mode and sometime around 1:30am EDT it will take a newer rev.
> You will get better signal level readings as well as a number of
> quality
> and stability refinements.

That fixed all my problems - the macroblocking and the incorrect time,
and the low signal level.

Everything seems to be rocking now - thanks!

SR



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[carlossoledade]

[VOOM] Macro Blocking (Wilt please read)...

Wilt,

I have had Voom since early March, and have seen the PQ fluctuate a lot. My main concern
is Macro Blocking.

I believe MPEG 2 compression/encoding takes advantage of the ammount of information
that changes in each frame. Everytime the frame changes a lot, almost ANY of the VOOM
channels macro block.

How do you see this:

(1) Any programming with flash lighting or strobe lighting. Every time the strobe or flash
goes of the whole frame changes and thus the MPEG compression/encoding settings are
not keeping up leading to Macro Blocking.

(2) Fast camera pans. Even whent the lighting is uniform, when the camera pans really fast
the picture Macro Blocks because the information in the frames is changing too fast.

(3) Frame filled with information all of a sudden. Look at any explosion where the fire fills
the frame. The explosion will macro block.


My question is how much of this is due to VOOM? Because sometimes this issue makes
certain programs just UN-watchable.

I know I saw these problems the other night in the last game of the series between LA and
the Timberwolves on TNT HD. I know in that case that the problems might of been with
the source since they were also there with Cable HD.

Another example is movies like Spiderman on HBOWest. Just macro blocks all over the
place. Problem is much less noticeable on HBO east.

Concerts with strobe lighting make this very noticeable. Even on OTA (think Grammy's on
CBS or Britney on Showtime).

Voom original channels appear to be less sensitive to this.

So the question remains:

(1) Is Macro Blocking occuring on the original feeds or is VOOM contributing/creating the
issue?

(2) If it is occuring at the source. Then the change to MPEG4 will not help right? The reason
I say this is that the providers will probably still be sending VOOM MPEG2 streams right?

Wilt help please !!!!

Carlos



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[carlossoledade]

[VOOM] Macro Blocking (Wilt please read)...

Wilt,

I have had Voom since early March, and have seen the PQ fluctuate a lot. My main concern
is Macro Blocking.

I believe MPEG 2 compression/encoding takes advantage of the ammount of information
that changes in each frame. Everytime the frame changes a lot, almost ANY of the VOOM
channels macro block.

How do you see this:

(1) Any programming with flash lighting or strobe lighting. Every time the strobe or flash
goes of the whole frame changes and thus the MPEG compression/encoding settings are
not keeping up leading to Macro Blocking.

(2) Fast camera pans. Even whent the lighting is uniform, when the camera pans really fast
the picture Macro Blocks because the information in the frames is changing too fast.

(3) Frame filled with information all of a sudden. Look at any explosion where the fire fills
the frame. The explosion will macro block.


My question is how much of this is due to VOOM? Because sometimes this issue makes
certain programs just UN-watchable.

I know I saw these problems the other night in the last game of the series between LA and
the Timberwolves on TNT HD. I know in that case that the problems might of been with
the source since they were also there with Cable HD.

Another example is movies like Spiderman on HBOWest. Just macro blocks all over the
place. Problem is much less noticeable on HBO east.

Concerts with strobe lighting make this very noticeable. Even on OTA (think Grammy's on
CBS or Britney on Showtime).

Voom original channels appear to be less sensitive to this.

So the question remains:

(1) Is Macro Blocking occuring on the original feeds or is VOOM contributing/creating the
issue?

(2) If it is occuring at the source. Then the change to MPEG4 will not help right? The reason
I say this is that the providers will probably still be sending VOOM MPEG2 streams right?

Wilt help please !!!!

Carlos



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[subdude212]

--- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "carlossoledade" <soledade@m...> wrote:
> Wilt,
>
> I have had Voom since early March, and have seen the PQ fluctuate
> a lot. My main concern is Macro Blocking.


Your problems sound larger than VOOM. What is your signal strength
when this "macro-blocking" occurs? Did you have a diplexer
installed? If your signal strength isn't in the mid 90's then
repeaking your dish might be in order or removing the diplexer if
you have one that is siphoning off some signal strength.

My system does not exhibit the PQ issues you (and others) have
noted. The TNT broadcast of the T'Wolves games was sharp and
artifact free here.



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[carlossoledade]

--- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "subdude212" <subdude212@r...> wrote:
> --- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "carlossoledade" <soledade@m...> wrote:
> > Wilt,
> >
> > I have had Voom since early March, and have seen the PQ fluctuate
> > a lot. My main concern is Macro Blocking.
>
>
> Your problems sound larger than VOOM. What is your signal strength
> when this "macro-blocking" occurs? Did you have a diplexer
> installed? If your signal strength isn't in the mid 90's then
> repeaking your dish might be in order or removing the diplexer if
> you have one that is siphoning off some signal strength.
>
> My system does not exhibit the PQ issues you (and others) have
> noted. The TNT broadcast of the T'Wolves games was sharp and
> artifact free here.

My signal strength is between 92 and 96 depending on weather. I have direct lines with no
dilexer. Many other people saw the issues I saw in the TNT HD broadcast. I posted about
that game in particular and many many people replied indicating they saw the same thing.

Other than possibly the STB itself I do not think my setup is at fault.



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[carlossoledade]

--- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "subdude212" <subdude212@r...> wrote:
> --- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "carlossoledade" <soledade@m...> wrote:
> > Wilt,
> >
> > I have had Voom since early March, and have seen the PQ fluctuate
> > a lot. My main concern is Macro Blocking.
>
>
> Your problems sound larger than VOOM. What is your signal strength
> when this "macro-blocking" occurs? Did you have a diplexer
> installed? If your signal strength isn't in the mid 90's then
> repeaking your dish might be in order or removing the diplexer if
> you have one that is siphoning off some signal strength.
>
> My system does not exhibit the PQ issues you (and others) have
> noted. The TNT broadcast of the T'Wolves games was sharp and
> artifact free here.

Signal is 92 to 96 depending on weather. Connected via DVI to sammy DLP using 720p
mode on the STB. Direct line connections to dish with NO diplexer.

I posted about the game on Satelliteguys.us and many others saw the same artifacts. Some
indicating they also saw it on VOOM, DISH, and CABLE. Hence my suspicion it was in the
source.

Other than the VOOM STB, I do not think its my setup.

Carlos





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[subdude212]

--- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "carlossoledade" <soledade@m...>
wrote:> I posted about the game on Satelliteguys.us and many others
> saw the same artifacts. Some indicating they also saw it on VOOM,
> DISH, and CABLE. Hence my suspicion it was in the source.
> Other than the VOOM STB, I do not think its my setup.

I have effectively the same equipment and setup. Most often when
I've experienced PQ issues I've checked other online forums like the
AVS Forum only to find out that what was looking horrible
(i.e. "macro-blocking", pixelization, drop outs, audio issues) was
effecting all providers at the same time time. So, although my PQ
issues are rare when I've checked against others I've found that
most times it isn't VOOM or my VOOM STB that's at fault but the
original source provider such as HBO, TNT, ABC.

I participated in a Satellite Guys chat a few nights ago with a few
members whom I'll leave nameless. One individual has posted dozens
of times complaining of PQ issues. In the chat he pointed to the
scoreboard overlay on WorldSport and said that was a clear example
of "macro-blocking" or compression artifacts. The fact was that the
same artifacts could be seen on the scoreboard overlay for the
Stanley Cup Finals on ABC which is supposedly compression free or
almost as an OTA station. My point is that VOOM is not always at
fault. VOOM's and easy target and sometimes its the right one but
not always.



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[Robert Heitner]

someone please explain what PQ & Macro blocking mean and/or stand for?

_____

From: subdude212 [mailto:subdude212@ritger.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 10:01 PM
To: VOOM@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VOOM] Re: Macro Blocking (Wilt please read)...


--- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "carlossoledade" <soledade@m...>
wrote:> I posted about the game on Satelliteguys.us and many others
> saw the same artifacts. Some indicating they also saw it on VOOM,
> DISH, and CABLE. Hence my suspicion it was in the source.
> Other than the VOOM STB, I do not think its my setup.

I have effectively the same equipment and setup. Most often when
I've experienced PQ issues I've checked other online forums like the
AVS Forum only to find out that what was looking horrible
(i.e. "macro-blocking", pixelization, drop outs, audio issues) was
effecting all providers at the same time time. So, although my PQ
issues are rare when I've checked against others I've found that
most times it isn't VOOM or my VOOM STB that's at fault but the
original source provider such as HBO, TNT, ABC.

I participated in a Satellite Guys chat a few nights ago with a few
members whom I'll leave nameless. One individual has posted dozens
of times complaining of PQ issues. In the chat he pointed to the
scoreboard overlay on WorldSport and said that was a clear example
of "macro-blocking" or compression artifacts. The fact was that the
same artifacts could be seen on the scoreboard overlay for the
Stanley Cup Finals on ABC which is supposedly compression free or
almost as an OTA station. My point is that VOOM is not always at
fault. VOOM's and easy target and sometimes its the right one but
not always.



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[Robert Heitner]

[VOOM] MacroBlocking/PQ

No-one replied to my post asking what Macro Blocking and PQ stand for and
what it means..

??

Robert

 

[berockin1]

[VOOM] Re: MacroBlocking/PQ

Not sure the exact definition of MacroBlocking
But PQ stands for Picture Quality

--- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, Robert Heitner <robert@d...> wrote:
> No-one replied to my post asking what Macro Blocking and PQ stand
for and
> what it means..
>
> ??
>
> Robert



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