Wiring up my next project

Status
Please reply by conversation.

Jason S

Ordinary Average Guy...
Original poster
Lifetime Supporter
Aug 9, 2014
825
500
North Central Texas
I'm about to get back to the 10' SAMI that I got back in January.

Before I get too much farther along, do I need to investigate a different wiring scheme or will I need to add power to the system?

Here is a diagram of what I currently have (30W is separate because of LOS issues):
Sat_dish_wiring - Current.jpg

This is what I am looking at doing in the interim:
Sat_dish_wiring - proposed2.jpg

Eventually, this is what I am looking to setup (or thereabouts) later:
Sat_dish_wiring - proposed2.jpg
Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.
 
Do you have plans for adding more receivers?
How long are your cable runs?
Are the new runs longer than the current ones?
Is your current setup working well?

It sounds like you may be worried about powering all those lnbfs.
 
I've run eight LNB's setup like that with no problem with the exception of the 22 khz switch. Right now I have six on a Amiko 8X1 switch with no problems.

There's something I've wondered about with a multi-LNB setup and I've just been just too lazy to check on, that I'm sure someone reading this thread will know the answer to - are all LNB's connected to a receiver powered all the time, or just the one that's actively being used?
 
I have heard that most DiSEqC switches power all ports. I have never found one like that. Multi-switches power all ports. I have stacked 1x4 switches behind 1x8 switches and run two KU motors behind the 1x8 as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: . Raine
The wiring diagram will not provide proper voltage to all electronics. LNBs require fixed 15-24Vdc and LNBFs are voltage switched 13/18Vdc. The LNB performance will be very poor or not work if provided 13Vdc.

The 22KHz switch doesn't appear necessary and only adds signal loss. Why not put this LNBF on the switch with all other LNB(f)s? If using a Universal LNBF, placing it after a 22KHz -ON port of a switch would only allow high-band (11.7-12.75) to be active. The Titanium PLL-1KS is not a Universal type LNBF, it is a Standard type. Please confirm the type of LNBF used on the 30W dish.

Placing a HH coax powered motor after a unpowered switch is a poor idea. The continuous over-rate power draws (add motor start-up and pass-through LNBF current for total port power draw) will likely cause premature switch failure. It would be best to either place the motor inline before the switch or to provide power insertion for the motor operation.

The easiest approach would to put a switch before the ASC1 to select and power the LNBFs and a switch after the ASC1 (set to Fixed: 18V) to select and power the LNBs.

An issue that I would be concerned with is the signal loss when stacking multiple switches and devices. One signal path is passing through a motor, 2 switches and a controller. The rated loss of that path is approx. 6dB.

To avoid multiple motor movement use USALS for the HH motor assignments and DiSEqC 1.2 for the ASC1 assignments. Disconnect the HH motor when programming the DiSEqC 1.2 settings or the HH motor may also save the settings and simultaneously move.

To A Raines point, some DiSEqC switches pass power on all ports at all times and only switch signal, while other switches switch both power and signal. Depends on the model. Have seen them operate both ways. The Amiko 8x1 model only passes power on the active port.
 
Do you have plans for adding more receivers?
How long are your cable runs?
Are the new runs longer than the current ones?
Is your current setup working well?

It sounds like you may be worried about powering all those lnbfs.
No current plans for more receivers
No runs longer than current.
Current setup works well, but thought to ask if I'm going to be overloaded.
 
No current plans for more receivers
You must not be married or you and your SO like the exact same shows?
My wife and I always watch different things. We each have our own TVs and recievers.

Dual output LNBFs and multi-switches are a godsend!:amen
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jason S
The wiring diagram will not provide proper voltage to all electronics. LNBs require fixed 15-24Vdc and LNBFs are voltage switched 13/18Vdc. The LNB performance will be very poor or not work if provided 13Vdc.

The 22KHz switch doesn't appear necessary and only adds signal loss. Why not put this LNBF on the switch with all other LNB(f)s? If using a Universal LNBF, placing it after a 22KHz -ON port of a switch would only allow high-band (11.7-12.75) to be active. The Titanium PLL-1KS is not a Universal type LNBF, it is a Standard type. Please confirm the type of LNBF used on the 30W dish.

Placing a HH coax powered motor after a unpowered switch is a poor idea. The continuous over-rate power draws (add motor start-up and pass-through LNBF current for total port power draw) will likely cause premature switch failure. It would be best to either place the motor inline before the switch or to provide power insertion for the motor operation.

The easiest approach would to put a switch before the ASC1 to select and power the LNBFs and a switch after the ASC1 (set to Fixed: 18V) to select and power the LNBs.

An issue that I would be concerned with is the signal loss when stacking multiple switches and devices. One signal path is passing through a motor, 2 switches and a controller. The rated loss of that path is approx. 6dB.

To avoid multiple motor movement use USALS for the HH motor assignments and DiSEqC 1.2 for the ASC1 assignments. Disconnect the HH motor when programming the DiSEqC 1.2 settings or the HH motor may also save the settings and simultaneously move.

To A Raines point, some DiSEqC switches pass power on all ports at all times and only switch signal, while other switches switch both power and signal. Depends on the model. Have seen them operate both ways. The Amiko 8x1 model only passes power on the active port.

Thank you for the thorough and knowledgeable input, Brian. The interim diagram I posted was incorrect, it was supposed to be this:
Sat_dish_wiring - proposed1.jpg
I had a "Dangit, you knew that" moment about powering the LNBs.

The reason for the 22 Khz switch after the ASC-1 is because the 30W dish is located across the yard from everything else. It is a PLL-1KS on that dish.

As for the HH motor, you got me to thinking and doing more research... I found this intriguing: [URL="http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/posts/3452190/"]external power to a HH motor [/URL]

For the meantime, it's back to the drawing board...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Titanium
You must not be married or you and your SO like the exact same shows?
My wife and I always watch different things. We each have our own TVs and recievers.

Dual output LNBFs and multi-switches are a godsend!:amen
Ha, Ha...

Married...with Children

It's the youngsters that generally throw a wrench in the works. Saturday mornings are generally where the issues occur, PBS-Kids vs. Create.
 
Now I have a few more questions...

To provide external power for the HH-120 and following this recipe:
STB >>> splitter 2x1, 3GHz rated. 1 port power passing
Splitter port 1 (power passing) >>> switch >>> LNBs
Splitter port 2 >>> 18Vdc power inserter >>> HH Motor


Would this work alright for the NA FTA sats using a standard LNBF? It's not 3GHz, but it shows power passing on one port and 5-2150 MHz.
Holland HFS2.jpg

And then for the power supply to the motor, would this work? 21V-1.2 amp. The max movement current draw on the Stab HH120 is listed at 350 mA
Direc power A.jpg
or this combo; 21V-1.2 amp power supply and 2-2150 MHz one port power passing splitter?
Direc Power .jpg


I appreciate any input.
 
You put some good thought into the flow!

Just to clarify:
STB >>> splitter 2x1, 2150MHz - 3GHz rated. 1 or 2 port power passing (doesn't matter)
Splitter port 1 >>> switch (per diagram Port 4 - ASC1 with LNB Power set to: Fixed: 18V and connected to C-band LNB) >>> LNBFs
Splitter port 2 >>> 18Vdc power inserter >>> HH Motor


Edit for clarification-----
Notes: This could work without the power inserter, but likely that the STB and switch rating will be exceeded. Need power on the coax to pass DiSEqC signals to the motor. I use the DirecTV inline, but inserter either would work.

Another option is to search the site for an old thread on powering the HH motor with an external power supply. No splitter is needed, but the traces were cut inside the motor between the STB port and motor power was instead provided by separate wires. The STB still provided power through the motor for the LNBF polarity switching.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jason S
You put some good thought into the flow!
I seem to have read this somewhere... ;)

Thank you! I'm still thinking about my overall wiring setup...

There are extra coax runs installed and available for use. It appears that it's time to use them and eliminate some switch loss.
 
You put some good thought into the flow!
Edit for clarification-----
Notes: This could work without the power inserter, but likely that the STB and switch rating will be exceeded. Need power on the coax to pass DiSEqC signals to the motor. I use the DirecTV inline, but inserter either would work.

Another option is to search the site for an old thread on powering the HH motor with an external power supply. No splitter is needed, but the traces were cut inside the motor between the STB port and motor power was instead provided by separate wires. The STB still provided power through the motor for the LNBF polarity switching.

Thank you again! I did research the HH motor modifications on here.

I like the idea of using the splitter and power inserter to take the load off the receiver and switches. I've got another wiring schematic to upload that hopefully will reduce switch insertion loss and accomplish my goals. Just need to finish editing it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Titanium
So after some head scratching, research and much welcomed advice; here is what I've come up with...

Wiring diagram-2.jpg

I'll have to add one more run of coax cable to that already in place. However, there should be quite a bit less switch insertion loss. The HH-120 motor load should be taken up by the power inserter relieving strain on the switches and STB. I'm uncertain, though, of if there will be an issue with a 22khz switch after the Amiko 8x1 for LNBs on a corotor?

The alternative schematic involves using existing coax runs and allows later expansion, but I believe more insertion loss than the schematic above:
Wiring diagram-1.jpg

Of the two, I believe the first schematic is probably the best overall for signal quality.

Any input, thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
 
The 1st diagram looks great and has least attenuation.

Yes, the 22KHz will work fine as per diagram. These switches are designed to work with Universal LNBFs (which have internal 22KHz switch for lo/high band selection).
 
Last edited:
The 1st diagram looks great and has least attenuation.

Yes, the 22KHz will work fine as per diagram. These switches are designed to work with Universal LNBFs (which have internal 22KHz switch for lo/high band selection.
Great! Again, thank you very much!

I've got a plan and now the hard part... Hope to have some good news on the SAMI soon.
 
Some update on the wiring...

This is the wiring schematic used:
Wiring diagram-2.jpg
The good part: As far as signal reception, everything is fine. Plus, the Ku motor no longer has the occasional movement when a Diseqc command is sent for the C-band motor (even though programmed separate with Diseqc for the C motor, USALS for Ku motor and entered with Ku motor disconnected).

The indifferent: At this time, the 7.5' C-band in the diagram has not been moved yet, but I don't foresee any problems (other than burying another cable).

The bad: I have tried several splitters with the D-tv 21v power inserter and have yet for the Ku motor to move. Splitters include 2150 mhz with power passing on one leg, power passing on both legs and even tried an Ecoda 22 khz switch. In testing, the splitters will pass/receive power/signal to the LNBF. However, with or without power inserter installed the motor doesn't move. Wired per manual and the motor moves fine.

It makes me think that this receiver (Manhattan RS-1933) may need the LNBF connected through the motor from the symptoms described here.

As for now, a bit more head scratching until I can experiment some more.
 
Status
Please reply by conversation.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 2)