Newbie question--who provides the OTA guide for DISH customers?

[Hall]

Going to The List, I see that all the LIMA stations are in HD on 77. So how is that different for me when my Dish supplied locals ar Rochester but I get the epg for all the Syracuse stations and their sub channels.

Do you get the guide data for every single channel and sub-channel, for either Rochester or Syracuse ?

 

[dwarren2]

Yes AFAIK. Except for 1 low power station and ION, ISHO, IONL, qubo and ION

 

[Hall]

None of the channels/sub-channels show the station's call letters ?

 

[JPatootie]

Just for comparison, I'll offer that my Lima, OH OTA channel guide shows call letters, but not network affiliation, instead, it shows an antenna icon. I HAVE learned that if I'm creating a timer, if it's available on sat, I need to use that channel, since I can only record one OTA channel at a time, and before I kept that in mind, I was getting many conflicts. dish has def spoiled me being able to record so many shows at once.

 

[dwarren2]

None of the channels/sub-channels show the station's call letters ?

Every network/PBS show call letters and .#. Except for Bounce and 1 channels weather report show the epg.

 

[Hall]

Just for comparison, I'll offer that my Lima, OH OTA channel guide shows call letters, but not network affiliation, instead, it shows an antenna icon.

A yellow background too, right? I didn't remember that it also showed the network logo, but it does.

 

[Mr Tony]

Going to The List, I see that all the LIMA stations are in HD on 77. So how is that different for me when my Dish supplied locals ar Rochester but I get the epg for all the Syracuse stations and their sub channels.

you can't go by "thelist" when it comes to OTA guide data.
If you go here
and scroll down to each city you will see a list of the satellite locals Dish carries in each market and below that a list of the OTA guide info they carry for each market. Using your "other" market of Syracuse here is the list of stations that have OTA info
OTA Program Guide Data:
3-01 WSTM TSID 0x0899, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5172/7627)
3-02 WSTM2 TSID 0x0899, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14898)
3-03 WSTM3 TSID 0x0899, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 14899)
5-01 WTVH TSID 0x089B, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5171/7626)
9-01 WSYR TSID 0x089D, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5170/7625)
9-02 WSYR2 TSID 0x089D, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 15178)
24-01 WCNY TSID 0x089F, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5174/7631)
24-02 WCNY2 TSID 0x089F, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14359)
24-03 WCNY3 TSID 0x089F, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 14360)
24-04 WCNY4 TSID 0x089F, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14897)
43-01 WNYS TSID 0x08A1, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5175/7629)
68-01 WSYT TSID 0x08A3, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5173/7628)

Now when I look at ALL stations in the Syracuse market the following stations Dish does not have guide info for
5-2 Grit
9-3 Bounce
58-X Ion mux
68-2 Zuus Country

Now if we go to Lima, OH which is the market the OP is trying to get guide info for over the air its just the following
OTA Program Guide Data:
27-01 WBGU TSID 0x08B9, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6585)
27-02 WBGU2 TSID 0x08B9, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 15138)
27-03 WBGU3 TSID 0x08B9, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 15139)
44-01 WTLW TSID 0x08ED, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6584)

27 is PBS and 44 is a religious staton. So anyone picking up Lima stations OTA is screwed. None of the Big 4 stations have guide info OTA (satellite yes but not OTA)

 

[TheKrell]

James Long? Say it ain't so Iceberg!

 

[Mr Tony]

its the only site that shows the OTA info (and has been posted a few times)

 

[Hall]

Is it part of the uplink data stream? If so, the folks here who do the uplink stuff could help (dump the data) and someone could make a page here. The way it's looking with Dish and OTA, personally, I don't think it's worth the effort...

 

[TheKrell]

Well, it's worth the effort IMHO if for no other reason but to keep James Long from one-upping Satelliteguys.

Edited to add: I don't really know what kind of effort it would take.

 

[Hall]

Well, it's worth the effort IMHO if for no other reason but to keep James Long from one-upping Satelliteguys.

Heh, I see no big deal with using it. I don't play the children's game of not naming dbstalk, oh wait, I mean, "that other site"

 

[DishSubLA]

I smell a rat and wonder if locals PAY Dish to have guide data included in the Dish OTA guide. I say this because in Los Angeles several local stations, the BIG Locals who offer CozyTV, AntennaTV, ThisTV and more seem to have EXCELLENT OTA guide data, while ThisTV, etc. in other cities have "Digital Service." yet all the stations just retransmit the LIVE east or west sat feed. The BIG stations here like NBC, Tribune's KTLA, ABC, PBS, most of the Spanish, Korean, and other language stations that are BIG and have money seem to have EXCELLENT guide data for the sub-channels they air.

Meanwhile teeny-tiny channel 46 who have GetTV, Escape, and GritTV, all of which air good, old movies, have NO GUIDE data. As I see the current LA OTA guide on Dish, it seems if you follow the money, you find great guide data, and where the station is small with little funds, there seems to be no guide data. MyTV 13, a 2nd station in LA Owned by Fox (a notoriously CHEAP company), does NOT have guide data for its BounceTV service, but no surprising knowing how cheap Fox can be. I looks like MONEY can solve a lot of "Digital Service" displays on the Dish OTA guide. In the case of the Dish OTA guide, it sure looks like a pick and choose scenario of whose guide data is provided.

Let's be aware that TiVo uses Tribune for its guide data, as does Dish, and a TiVo provides detailed guide data for ALL the locals including rich info for ALL the sub-channels, so Tribune has all the data. It may be that Dish does NOT want to bear the cost alone to provide ALL sub-channel data and may require a local station to pay all or part of that cost. At least during the Charlie Chat days, Charlie would have copped to it "costing too much money," (his most frequent refrain for why Dish did not offer this or that) we would've had our answer. If Dish would just tell us if it is technical or financial, we could begin to accept the limitation and move on, but not as long as Dish continues to be cryptic on the subject with never a direct answer. Gee, could not Dish include its sister company's (Echostar) solution for the Hopper that it provides for the Channel Master DVR+ it manufactures for CM that provides good OTA guide data? It would be nice if Dish were upfront and unambiguous on the matter, like back in the Charlie Chat days.

 

[Mr Tony]

Is it part of the uplink data stream? .

yes. But I'm sure that is in the "filter" just like the RSN moves daily (from the slate to a TP that shows the HD games)

 

[Mr Tony]

I smell a rat and wonder if locals PAY Dish to have guide data included in the Dish OTA guide.

nope.

Let's be aware that TiVo uses Tribune, just as Dish does, and a TiVo provides detailed guide data for ALL the locals including rich info for ALL the sub-channels, so Tribune has all the data. .

Its Dish that has the issue. Directv uses Tribune too. What they do is as long as they have the station loaded in their (D*) database the guide info will pass through. Dish decides to take an extra step and take the data and does something else with it. As example they take the guide data for the BIg 4 (in most cases) from the satellite delivered station. So if Dish drops a station, then the guide info for that OTA version is ALSO dropped (Directv doesnt have that issue)

 

[Mr Tony]

by the way here are the stations that Directv has OTA guide info for that dish doesnt (call sign then PSIP channel)
KTTV-DT2 11
KCOP-DT2 13
KHWY-DT2 22
KPXN-DT2 30
KPXN-DT3 30
KPXN-DT4 30
KVDM-DT2, 4-9
KTBN-DT1 THRU 5 40
KXLA-DT3 THRU 8 44
KTFR-DT2 46
KOCE-DT4 50
KVEA-DT1 & 2 52
KAZA-DT2 & 3 54
KDOC-DT3 56
KJLA-DT5 THRU 9 57
KBEH-DT2 THRU 4 63
KILM 64-1

 

[Hall]

...but not as long as Dish continues to be cryptic on the subject with never a direct answer.

This is not a secret nor is Dish being cryptic about anything. At least a year ago, one of the DIRT people posted that going forward, Dish is no longer updating / maintaining this OTA data.

A lot of people aren't aware that this was stated while a lot of people just can't accept it...

I realize that you have examples but I know nothing about that market. What I've seen in my market and have confirmed p with others for their market is that "certain" changes made by local stations are the determining factor in how it will work.

 

[osu1991]

This is not a secret nor is Dish being cryptic about anything. At least a year ago, one of the DIRT people posted that going forward, Dish is no longer updating / maintaining this OTA data.

A lot of people aren't aware that this was stated while a lot of people just can't accept it...

I realize that you have examples but I know nothing about that market. What I've seen in my market and have confirmed p with others for their market is that "certain" changes made by local stations are the determining factor in how it will work.

I can accept it, I'm just going to continue to be pissed about it and complain about it, since that is all I can do

 

[DishSubLA]

This is not a secret nor is Dish being cryptic about anything. At least a year ago, one of the DIRT people posted that going forward, Dish is no longer updating / maintaining this OTA data.

A lot of people aren't aware that this was stated while a lot of people just can't accept it...

I realize that you have examples but I know nothing about that market. What I've seen in my market and have confirmed p with others for their market is that "certain" changes made by local stations are the determining factor in how it will work.

Well, in fact, my OTA guide data HAS been updated, or more precise, added guide data where there had been NONE before. Dish is typical in that on certain subjects that is just does not want to address, all sorts of different (often phone-baloney) answers a given for it. It is clear that Dish is "Not changing" the WAY they are handling the OTA guide, but NOT its seemingly arbitrary decisions on WHO or WHICH channels get the data and which do not.

 

[DishSubLA]

I can accept it, I'm just going to continue to be pissed about it and complain about it, since that is all I can do

Of course, you complain, as do I, and it is fair to do so because my point is that Dish have NEVER clearly stated without ambiguity (and I'm not talking about CSR's or DIRT as sources) why they have an inconsistent support for OTA guide data coming from a highly placed source such as Vivek, Joe, or other officers. While I am aware of Scott's post regarding this question asked of Dish as being "they are not changing how they do it," that response is obfuscation and the question of WHY Dish doesn't do so today is still NOT answered nor does it clear confusion on telling US how they do it, or more precisely, WHY they CHOOSE NOT to provide OTA data for all sub-channels, be it technical or financial, or other reasons. Again, if someone can directly quote Vivek or any other officer at Dish who has EXPLAINED WHY we are not getting ALL OTA sub-channel data, please post it. Otherwise, we invite Vivek or any other officer of Dish to state WHY we don't get data for all sub-channels. IMHO, Dish does NOT want to bear that cost alone, and I mean even a technical upgrade, let alone the the additional charges I imagine Tribune wants to provide all that extra data. It seems only Charlie has the guts to say when something costs too much . Dish prefers to not answer directly and allow confusion than admit to some limitation or unwillingness to provide guide data for all sub-channels. Tribune has ALL the data for just about ALL the sub-channels, as evidenced by looking at my TiVo guide displaying all my OTA's and nearly EVERY OTA Sub-channel.

Here are my questions: Dish, WHY do you choose NOT to provide OTA guide data for all sub-channels? And explain to us HOW you provide the OTA guide data for sub-channels so that we may have a clear understanding of the limitations that prevent you from doing so today?