The ANSWER to last night's HD Poll

[Scott Greczkowski]

Well yesterday was a very interesting day here at SatelliteGuys and for customers of Dish Network.

Yesterday Dish Network made a MAJOR change to its HD broadcasts on 6 of its HD Channels, and while we openly discussed those changes in our uplink report, we knew not many folks read the uplink reports after they are initially published, so in knowing this we took a poll.

The questions were as follows:

1) Hows the Picture Quality?
2) Does it look better, worse or the same since yesterday (or the last time you watched this channel if it was before yesterday)

The channels which changed were
9425 - ESPN2 HD
9426 - NFL HD
9429 - National Geographic HD
9435 - StarzHD
9461 - HGTV HD
9462 - Food HD

The overwhelming majority reported that the HD quality looked good, in fact most pointed out that the picture looked a little better then it did before!

This was surprising to hear especially from some of our "HD Lite" diehards.

So what did Dish change? What was the secret? Well here is the answer.

Yesterday Dish Network combined all 6 channels onto one transponder using new MPEG4 encoders.

Yes that is correct 6 HD Channels on one transponder! Before yesterday there was only two or 3 HD channels per transponder.

These encoders must be good, real good especially with folks reporting the picture looks better because the bandwidth for each channel was cut by more than HALF!

The MPEG4 channels were running at 12mb/s to 14 mb/s on Tuesday, and yesterday they are running from 5mb/s to 7mb/s! Quite a difference!

It should also be noted that the screen resolutions for all 6 channels have no changed in this upgrade.

Here are the resolutions:

9425 - ESPN2 1280 x 720
9426 - NFL 1440 x 1080
9429 - National Geographic HD 1280 x 720
9435 - StarzHD 1440 x 1080
9461 - HGTV HD Got - 1440 x 1080
9462 - FoodHD - 1440 x 1080

Finally we are seeing what true MPEG4 can do! But whats this mean for us the consumer? More HD Channels! I am hearing some buzz that Dish has some big HD plans coming down the road, they claim to be the HD leader and intended to stay that way!

A bit hats off to all the engineers and folks at the uplink to reach this milestone. We can only think that as MPEG4 technology advances things can only get better!

Thank you to everyone who answered the poll! Thanks for being True SatelliteGuys!

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

I didn't see the poll last night but I watched Deep Sea Drillers on NTGHD and thought it was awesome. There were several points of fast camera action that normally would pixellate and they didn't. Now I see why!!!!

 

[BobMurdoch]

I'm pleasantly surprised to hear that we had an unexpected POSITIVE change from the folks in Littleton... but I have a request....

UNTIL you are ready to roll out the new channels, could you up the PQ back to what it was a few years back when it looked like I was looking through a glass window when I turned on Discovery HD? With extra bandwidth to spare, I wish the Super Bowl would look as good as it did two or three years ago on CBSHD.

If D* wants to fight you with quantity, fight back with quality and start running ads attacking HD lite. Fios is a real threat in the long term, and this will be your only glaring deficiency (assuming HBO doesn't go away for a long time).

But congrats on finally making mpeg4 work as envisioned.... We look forward to see what is coming next..... Maybe even a magical "software" fix for my HDMI output on my 622....

 

[ripnbigc]

If they're saving the bandwidth, why not give us the correct screen resolution?

 

[BobMurdoch]

An interesting side effect.... will less data mean more recordings on the 622. The 30 hr. HD restriction is becoming a real nuisance... I may have to switch a few timers to SD since I can't stay ahead of everything until rerun season kicks in again...

 

[MSG]

Finally, some good news from E.

 

[abricko]

Scott,

I followed the uplink thread as the *poll* was happening...

Did you get confirmation from E* or a secret source of yours that they are indeed using newer MPEG4 encoders? Unless I missed something (maybe a CES announcement) I think it was all speculation (b/c they are now able to put 6 HD channels and have it still look reasonably good). Enlighten us please.

If anything the more I watch the 6 *new and improved* HD channels they appear a bit softer than before... I've even checked with a DVR'd FoodHD program. Still, I welcome the possibility of more HD channels now that they've figured out how to pack programming more efficiently.

I'm sure this new will spark many more HD-LITE complainers, sure I'd love to see full rez / full bit-rate HD but I don't think it'll ever go back. The average viewer are probably still wowed with their *pretty new TV*, broadcasters don't seem to care much and the competition (D*) isn't doing it.

Also I know we're only seeing one side of the situation, but it seems like they should lower the bitrate of ESPN2 and NTGEO (the 720p stations) and in turn up the bitrate on starzHD... ESPECIALLY ESPN2 which shows mostly SD stuff. Again, I know we don't know the specific encoder settings but it does seem odd to put that channel's bitrate so high while starzHD is so low.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

If they're saving the bandwidth, why not give us the correct screen resolution?

There are two reasons I can think of.

1) The encoders are still not up to snuff of 1920 x 1080 yet.

2) The majority of HDTV's out there in the field today can NOT display resolutions about 1440 x 1080

However I feel over time both of these will change, and I am optimitic we will see this change for both reasons.

 

[downriver]

So has the time come to purchase a 622?? I see 'em for around $450 now and it looks like 942's are going for around $200 on Ebay which means around $150 by the time Ebay and Paypal finish their hose job. So, for $300 I can get a 622. I see little difference in price between the AE & Voom package that I have now and the Platinum pack which should include VOOM. Cinemax is not listed on the Platinum pack, do you lose Cinemax?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Dish does not have Cinemax HD. (you do get Cinemax SD even though its not listed in the package)

 

[long_time_DNC]

I'm not complaining, really. I'd like to see the eye-popping HD of a year or so ago rather than improved HD Lite, but hey, they've improved it by a noticeable amount and so I'm pleased. I share Scott's optimism that, over time, we'll see further improvements. Good job, Dish!

 

[MikeD-C05]

What does this mean for the hd Locals ? Will they improve the quality of the Dish hd locals so they won't break in to green screen pixelations and audio drop outs? What are Dish's plans to transition all hd to true mpeg 4? I think Directv is going to do all their hd in true hd by years end or when they get all the new satellites up. I would think Dish would do the same thing so they can squeeze even more hd up there. In fact I remember hearing something about a 3 year transition of all the channels in both hd and sd to mpeg 4 in that same 3 year time period. So this year would mean hd by this year end and the rest of sd in 2 more years giving us a whole lot of bandwith to fill in hd by 2009.

 

[JohnTomFerg]

What is the possibility that they could shift all HD to Mpeg4 and all SD to Mpeg4? I know there are many subscribers who don't have the pre-requisite boxes for Mpeg4 decoding... but is there any chance that there could be a forced upgrade program?

If they have to maintain some Mpeg2 channels, is this Mpeg2 SD compability perhaps an area where D* and E* can share bandwidth where channel offering overlap to free up their other bandwidth for competing HD content.

Just some thought to stroke the fires...

 

[Hall]

An interesting side effect.... will less data mean more recordings on the 622.

Yes, it will allow more recordings. The hours available won't "add up" unless Dish changes the calculation(s) they use though. The bandwidth per channel, i.e. Mb/s, is directly proportional.

Someone at AVS mentioned a program that they frequently record taking half the space it took before this change. If a Food HD, at 12-14Mb/s three days ago is now at 6-7Mb/s, it will take half the space.

 

[Hall]

Dish wants people to get rid of their 811, 921, and 942 based on their "trade in" offers. Now, whether people feel what they're getting for them is fair or not, that's only for them to decide....

 

[gjh3260]

appears to be a step in the right direction for E*. Possibly the HD RSN's will become closer to reality now with the freeing up of bandwidth.

 

[Slipper1]

Since it is now using less bandwidth, does that also have positive impact on reception or losing picture? Anytime there is rain/snow - these channels are the first that I lose - and often I lose them and not any of the other channels. I think this is probably b/c they are coming from a different satellite than the other channels - but was hoping this would help. BTW - I have a Dish 1000 in Twin Cities. So, not sure if this is "normal" to lose these stations first, or if I possibly should have my dish adjusted.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The RSN HD's they have up there now are in MPEG2 not MPEG4.

I have no way of telling if there is any programming on those channels or not airing now or just Dish Logo's filling in the space.

They could now make them MPEG4 and have all the sames on at the same time from the RSN's they carry at the same time.

 

[gjh3260]

Since it is now using less bandwidth, does that also have positive impact on reception or losing picture? Anytime there is rain/snow - these channels are the first that I lose - and often I lose them and not any of the other channels. I think this is probably b/c they are coming from a different satellite than the other channels - but was hoping this would help. BTW - I have a Dish 1000 in Twin Cities. So, not sure if this is "normal" to lose these stations first, or if I possibly should have my dish adjusted.

I have a Dish 1000 in the Twin Cities and not have had any problems with reception during rain/snow. Its possible the dish needs adjustment.

 

[Paradox-SJ]

There are two reasons I can think of.

1) The encoders are still not up to snuff of 1920 x 1080 yet.

2) The majority of HDTV's out there in the field today can NOT display resolutions about 1440 x 1080

However I feel over time both of these will change, and I am optimitic we will see this change for both reasons.

I doubt point 2 is valid anymore. Most TV sold in the last year alone (ruf. 3 million) were all 1080p.