1080p Switching through Receiver

InstigatorX

InstigatorX

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Sep 6, 2008
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Suffice to say I have a TV and Receiver that support 1080p...does anyone have the problem where switching the 1080p through the receiver doesn't work, but going direct to the TV does? Even if its forced (ala just saying "Yes, I would still like to purchase even though the 1080p test fails).

Receiver is a Denon AVR-888 and TV is Samsung LNT4661.

Yes, yes, yes...1080p is supported on both (receiver and TV) and DOES work when going direct.
 
E*Dude

E*Dude

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 21, 2008
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Are you certain that the receiver supports HDCP? If you're having problems with it working, chances are something in the chain is not passing/validating the HDCP copy protection authentication.

HDCP is a real pain in the industry.
 
lakebum431

lakebum431

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Having the same problem on my Denon 3808ci. Yes, HDCP works on it. I have the receiver set on passthrough so it shouldn't matter. Also tried with the receiver scaling to 1080p, but no luck. When I connect direct from 722 to Pioneer 6020 it works fine. Gotta be some problem with the way the 722 talks to the 3808.
 
harshness

harshness

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May 5, 2007
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Yes, yes, yes...1080p is supported on both (receiver and TV) and DOES work when going direct.
If the Denon can't positively identify the Samsung TV a 1080p terminal device, it must report back to the DVR that the TV isn't capable.

Given the rather large number of HDMI issues with Samsung displays, it is ill-advised to summarily pin the problem on Denon.
 
InstigatorX

InstigatorX

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Sep 6, 2008
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If the Denon can't positively identify the Samsung TV a 1080p terminal device, it must report back to the DVR that the TV isn't capable.

Given the rather large number of HDMI issues with Samsung displays, it is ill-advised to summarily pin the problem on Denon.
I blame my Dish 622. My Xbox 360 with HDMI @ 1080p works fine through the same receiver and I'm currently switching 1080i through it for the 622. Maybe L613 fixes, but haven't received it.
 
harshness

harshness

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I blame my Dish 622. My Xbox 360 with HDMI @ 1080p works fine through the same receiver and I'm currently switching 1080i through it for the 622. Maybe L613 fixes, but haven't received it.
Blame what you want, but the device that seems to break the chain is the Denon.
 
Hightech

Hightech

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Jul 4, 2004
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Blame what you want, but the device that seems to break the chain is the Denon.


This is BS, maybe for a select few it might be the case but my Mits 73833 and Onyko TX-SR805 were having the exact same issue night before last and nothing I did would let it pass dishes little test(both are positively 1080p/24 compliant).

The next morning I tried again and it magically worked perfectly, nothing in my setup changed from one night to the next day, but apparently dishes buggy software did. You can read a more detailed explaination I typed up under the 1080p how its going to work thread at the top.

In the last few years we have all become beta testers for dish.
 
waltinvt

waltinvt

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It's probably naive to think Dish doesn't sneak through unannounced "fixes" occasionally.
 
E

EricBskiVT

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Aug 25, 2007
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I guess this thread makes up my mind. Since I have 2 HDMI ports on my TV, I guess I will hook all HDMI devices to my Onkyo 606 except my VIP622. For that, I'll go HDMI to the TV and component/TOSLINK to the receiver. I need a non-receiver connection anyway for those (she shall remain anonymous) who just don't like to mess with the receiver. :D
 
E*Dude

E*Dude

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Mar 21, 2008
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He, he. I love the finger pointing, even though no one really knows what device is causing the issue.

I've done custom installs for many years and have seen this many times since the introduction of HDCP. Regardless of what devices are in the system, whether it be sat receivers, cable boxes, blu-ray or whatever, adding a third HDMI device (receiver, switcher, etc) to the chain is problematic 70% of the time.

What generally has cured issues like these in the past with my clients is the power-up sequence. If you power-up all source devices first (Sat receiver, DVD player, X-box), then power-up the monitor / TV and give it approximately 15 seconds so it can begin querying HDMI sources, THEN power-up your RECEIVER LAST and you might have better success.

I can't say that'll work for everyone, but it has saved me many times. Please let me know success / failures using this technique.
 
Last edited:
Hightech

Hightech

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Jul 4, 2004
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He, he. I love the finger pointing, even though no one really knows what device is causing the issue.

I've done custom installs for many years and have seen this many times since the introduction of HDCP. Regardless of what devices are in the system, whether it be sat receivers, cable boxes, blu-ray or whatever, adding a third HDMI device (receiver, switcher, etc) to the chain is problematic 70% of the time.

What generally has cured issues like these in the past with my clients is the power-up sequence. If you power-up all source devices first (Sat receiver, DVD player, X-box), then power-up the monitor / TV and give it approximately 15 seconds so it can begin querying HDMI sources, THEN power-up your RECEIVER LAST and you might have better success.

I can't say that'll work for everyone, but it has saved me many times. Please let me know success / failures using this technique.

Although im pretty experienced with such devices as well, this procedure will not work for this problem, the problem being all devices no matter what sequence they are turned on will require a resync when dish runs there little 1080p test to play the 1080p VOD movie, causing the whole chain (that is already on and working prior to this test) to resync and cause all kinds of problems for components. Dish just didnt think this through with their test requirement, or maybe a better statement would simply be they didnt have a clue, as long as it worked with there simple setup in the shop anyway.
 
K

kwindrem

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 5, 2006
644
127
Suffice to say I have a TV and Receiver that support 1080p...does anyone have the problem where switching the 1080p through the receiver doesn't work, but going direct to the TV does? Even if its forced (ala just saying "Yes, I would still like to purchase even though the 1080p test fails).

Receiver is a Denon AVR-888 and TV is Samsung LNT4661.

Yes, yes, yes...1080p is supported on both (receiver and TV) and DOES work when going direct.
HDMI/HDCP being what it is, passing the signal through the A/V receiver increases the handshake time. In some cases, the time it takes to get a picture doubles! I can't believe it takes a data link capable of 3 Gb/s 3-6 seconds per device to sync up but it's true.

I suspect what's happening is the Dish receiver gives up before the connection stabilizes.

You can probably respond OK blindly if you know what the dialog box looks like and what the default button is. E.g., if the buttons are YES, CANCEL, NO like most and the default is CANCEL, press the left arrow then SELECT even before you see a picture!

BTW, there's little difference between 1080p24 and 1080i if your TV does a good job detecting 3:2 pulldown. 1080i provides at least two fields for ever film frame so the entire 24 FPS frame can be reconstructed for display. This reconstruction relies on the TV's ability to detect motion between film frames and this can sometimes fail. 1080p24 eliminates the need to reconstruct the film frame since it's sent at film frame rate not video rate. The TV then needs to insert it's own 3:2 pulldown sequence for display (unless the TV can run the display at 72 HZ or 120 Hz).
 
H

hendrix04

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 16, 2008
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If the Denon can't positively identify the Samsung TV a 1080p terminal device, it must report back to the DVR that the TV isn't capable.

Given the rather large number of HDMI issues with Samsung displays, it is ill-advised to summarily pin the problem on Denon.


I have the same samsung as the original poster and a Onyko 605 and it works fine, so don't blame the TV...
 
rglore

rglore

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You can probably respond OK blindly if you know what the dialog box looks like and what the default button is. E.g., if the buttons are YES, CANCEL, NO like most and the default is CANCEL, press the left arrow then SELECT even before you see a picture!
You don't have to do that, just press left or right arrow to reset the timeout every few seconds to give your equipment more time to sync to the 1080p rent confirmation message.
 
S

Smith P.

On Vacation
Oct 4, 2003
8,907
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Bay Area, CA
HDMI/HDCP being what it is, passing the signal through the A/V receiver increases the handshake time. In some cases, the time it takes to get a picture doubles! I can't believe it takes a data link capable of 3 Gb/s 3-6 seconds per device to sync up but it's true.
<...>

You should think about I2C bus speed when observing EDID.
 
DishSatUser

DishSatUser

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Sep 22, 2003
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Problem is, some receivers don't do just a straight "switching" of the HDMI signals. Instead they'll do internal processing as well.

A large number of the home theater magazines that review the equipment include a chart of the features supported, how well the feature functions (Pass or Fail) and it's amazing how many of the really expensive gear still "fail" some of the video processing features.

As 1080P is a newer specification, and some home theater equipment makers are still having problems with the original specifications, it doesn't suprise me you encounter difficulties.

I do see that the Denon is well reviewed at Home Theater: Denon AVR-888 A/V Receiver

The reviewer does use "Pure Direct mode" instead that has the original source passed through with no processing. Have you tried that mode with your ViP DVR?
 
allargon

allargon

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Aug 2, 2007
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Austin, TX
I've done custom installs for many years and have seen this many times since the introduction of HDCP. Regardless of what devices are in the system, whether it be sat receivers, cable boxes, blu-ray or whatever, adding a third HDMI device (receiver, switcher, etc) to the chain is problematic 70% of the time.

What generally has cured issues like these in the past with my clients is the power-up sequence. If you power-up all source devices first (Sat receiver, DVD player, X-box), then power-up the monitor / TV and give it approximately 15 seconds so it can begin querying HDMI sources, THEN power-up your RECEIVER LAST and you might have better success.

I can't say that'll work for everyone, but it has saved me many times. Please let me know success / failures using this technique.

That's almost good advice. However, it's been my experience that one should power up the TV/display/monitor FIRST, then the source devices. Quite a few upconverting players will default to 480p if they power-on before the display. (Granted with an inactive receiver in the middle, they might not see each other. I would power on the display, the receiver, then the source devices.)
 

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