148W Update

TNGTony

TNGTony

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Sep 7, 2003
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Thanks for posting this.

I really wonder what Dish wants to use 148 for at this point. All the internationals are at 121° (correction 118.7°) which has an excellent look-angle from everywhere in the US. And unless they plan coverage for Hawaii, Samoa, Guam and Alaska from that location, there really is no advantage.

It will be interesting to see what the FCC says.
 
F

Fitzie

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Referencing nelson61's comment, the answer should be interesting if made public. There may be far-reaching commercial implications involved not relating to DBS which Dish/Echostar would prefer not to be made public until they are moved forward.
 
D

DishSubLA

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In the short term "legalized" warehousing? Dish, form day one, has had a strategy of eating up as many DBS slots as they could, and I don't believe the primary motivation was future bandwidth use, IMHO.

Is it not better to keep 148, a US DBS slot, for as long as possible before it may have to be given up, or find another use that can guarantee no new competition? Rhetorical questions demonstrating conjecture on my part, based on past observations.

Every company despises more competition. However, there could be a legitimate long-term use for 148 as 129, 118.7 and some of the Eastern Arc are all LEASED slots, as are some of the sats and capacity, form other countries who don't see the current leases as permanent and expect them to serve their nation's commercial interest (Canada expects this) when these leases (some at 15 years) ends and can not be kept for use by U.S. companies for the very long-run (DirecTV in the same situation). We shall have to see what happens next.
 
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mike123abc

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The problem is that I do not think anyone else would really want the slot for DBS service. It only reaches the western part of the US AK and HI. It would be worse than the look angles VOOM had.

What would really work is if Dish puts a satellite there that has nice coverage of AK and HI and does 32TPs of MPEG4 for them.
 
nelson61

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The problem is that I do not think anyone else would really want the slot for DBS service. It only reaches the western part of the US AK and HI. It would be worse than the look angles VOOM had.

What would really work is if Dish puts a satellite there that has nice coverage of AK and HI and does 32TPs of MPEG4 for them.

Ciel has the 138W concession (Canada) for the 12.2-12.7 Mhz band and has been flogging it on the market for a couple of years. No published takers yet, even though it has more value than 148W.

148W is good th the Mississipi so it is really not a dog either ( unless you are one of those east coast people that thinks the midwest is the West)
 
nelson61

nelson61

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Referencing nelson61's comment, the answer should be interesting if made public. There may be far-reaching commercial implications involved not relating to DBS which Dish/Echostar would prefer not to be made public until they are moved forward.

Fitzie;

Normally, I would agree with you about their liking to keep things private but FCC has put the hammer down this time and the results will be public. Their letter states that Dish/Echostar has 15 days to file an AMENDMENT (AMD) or they are out. So, the rubber has met the road.
 
Claude Greiner

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What Dish Network should do is take over 148, 157, and 166 and offer a "Western" Arc service. So what we would have is...

Eastern Arc
61.5, 72, 77

Southern Arc
119, 110, 129

Western Arc
148, 157, 166

Basically they do the same thing they did on Eastern Arc, but for the West Coast which would help them be able to spot beam locals for the entire country and open up more locations for line of site.
 
D

DishSubLA

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The problem is that I do not think anyone else would really want the slot for DBS service. It only reaches the western part of the US AK and HI. It would be worse than the look angles VOOM had.

What would really work is if Dish puts a satellite there that has nice coverage of AK and HI and does 32TPs of MPEG4 for them.

I believe Charley takes the McDonald's view of competition: McDonald's considers, at lest it used to, even the most tiny burger fast food joint within a certain radius of one of their franchises as a SUPREME threat, and will respond with everything they have to destroy, vanquish the least of any competition. This is how one prevents problems to the bottom line before it becomes a problem. It is the fool who doesn't take the little man with his one seat burger joint as a serious threat as great businesses and giant corporations have started out as just itty-bitty, shoe-string operations that the big boys may just laugh at. Uh, Bill Gates, anyone. Microsoft is as big as it is because our dear old Bill considered a man with an abacus and mental issues a SUPREME threat to his business. And such McDonald's, Microsoft (and Dish, IMHO) strategies regarding competition work..

Even a modest competitive DBS service focused only on HI and AK, could, and would hurt Dish--not its survival--as every account counts, and instead of people having only one alternative, possibly DirecTV, it makes it a little less likely Dish could get DirecTV defectors. Dish and DircTV are fighting for every customer on the tit-for-tat TV advertising campaigns and neither wants a 3rd competitor, no matter how small, as it is tougher than ever getting subs. The best way to deal with competition is to PREVENT it from ever materializing.
 
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HDRoberts

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What Dish Network should do is take over 148, 157, and 166 and offer a "Western" Arc service. So what we would have is...

Eastern Arc
61.5, 72, 77

Southern Arc
119, 110, 129

Western Arc
148, 157, 166

Basically they do the same thing they did on Eastern Arc, but for the West Coast which would help them be able to spot beam locals for the entire country and open up more locations for line of site.

No need to go as far as 166. They could use 138, 148, and 157. Heck, with all MPEG4, they may be able to get away with 138 and 148 only.
 
R

rocatman

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No need to go as far as 166. They could use 138, 148, and 157. Heck, with all MPEG4, they may be able to get away with 138 and 148 only.

Certainly with MPEG-4 and a limited number of spotbeams, Dish could easily provide a full channel lineup with two full DBS slots. I believe Dish will develop their "reverse DBS" slots first before trying to get use of other slots besides 148 W. Dish could also provide a service to a number of DMAs from 129 W and 148 W using a D1000 style dish since they are only 19 degrees apart. Recognize that with MPEG-4, Dish probably only needs 32 - 35 TPs maximum to provide all the CONUS programming. Dish could build a satellite for 148 W similar to Ciel-2 with up to 16 TPs dedicated to spotbeams with the rest used for CONUS programming. This would eliminate the need to get a licensing agreement with Ciel for 138.5 W or try to get licensing for the other slots.
 
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D

DishSubLA

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What Dish Network should do is take over 148, 157, and 166 and offer a "Western" Arc service. So what we would have is...

Eastern Arc
61.5, 72, 77

Southern Arc
119, 110, 129

Western Arc
148, 157, 166

Basically they do the same thing they did on Eastern Arc, but for the West Coast which would help them be able to spot beam locals for the entire country and open up more locations for line of site.

Dish did bid on and win the 157 slot, but Dish just let the time elapse for meeting the FCC's milestones. So, Dish apparently decided on a plan that, in the end, did not include 157. I believe 157 currently has no takers, unless I missed something.

IMHO, Dish's ultimate plan is probably using only the slots and licenses it owns, both DBS and, perhaps, other bands, using the most efficient encoding and modulation available and practicable. This would be a great cost savings in the long run, but it takes time to get all the sats and boxes in place.

However, IMHO, I really do believe that we are in for a MAJOR revolution in how we all get our TV in about 5+ years. Once the internet speed issues are dealt with, and this administration is extremely serious about this, and the FCC will finally tackle this issue, and the new gateway initiative that will standardize all delivery to homes via cable, sat, whatever so all set-top-boxes will be compatable, the days of watching and recording and receiving TV in the current linear channel model will be over.

It will be the internet, for the most part, with all of use paying separate subscriptions for the "channels" we watch today such as ESPN, USA, and even services similar to Hulu: that is the answer of how all this currently free internet content will finally be something the big media corps. can finally charge money for and make money with and settles the "A la Carte" issue for those who don't like paying for 220 channels they don't watch. Of course, this just enhances popular services such as Netflix.

Dish and DirecTV, forced by market conditions, could end up using their satellite capacity to supplement internet delivery of the content, almost exclusively, especially where some homes don't have the on-line speeds. A hybrid broadband sat service used mostly for DOWNLOADS, not linear TV, but the same experience as accessing TV on-line with things such as Boxee and other gateway boxes designed for TV and movies via internet. I could be wrong, but things will change drastically sooner than we think.
 
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nelson61

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A bit of trivia.

Calculating from the fuel data and timelines for E8, it appears that stationkeeping consumes about 6 kg/month of fuel.

For comparison, they keep about 2.5 kg in reserve to raise the orbit 300km at end of satellite life.
 
apollog

apollog

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Don't forget the 86.5 slot, Charlie now owns that slot and is working on something there, that he is keeping tight lip about. Scott G. mentioned something about that awhile back.
 
R

rocatman

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Nov 28, 2003
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The details.

Echostar 8 has 500 kg of fuel remaining and projected end of life -- last half of 2017.

Echostar 8 could be in service at 148W in February 2012 if FCC approves delay.

Quetzsat 1 construction complete in July 2011 with launch Novembe 2011.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=815591

Somewhat disappointing that the launch of the QuetzSat-1 satellite is slipping 3 months but not surprising considering it should a very large spotbeam satellite. If the FCC doesn't approve of Dish waiting until 2012 to move E-8 to 148 W, the could move E-7 there after E-14 is in place or move E-3 or E-6 there after E-15 is launched and operational at 61.5 W late summer 2010. I believe Dish would probably implement one of these decisions because I think they want to hold onto the licenses at 148 W. To reiterate what I posted above, Dish could use 129 W and 148 W to provide full slate of programming using MPEG-4 and a D1000 dish so getting licensing for other slots such as 138.5 W, 157 W or 166 W would not be worth the trouble/expense. Dish only needs 32 - 35 TPs for a full slate of CONUS programming and with 129 W, they already have 16 TPs there. Dish could build a new satellite similar to Ciel-2 with up to 16 TPs dedicated to spotbeams for 148 W.

In regards to the 86.5 W slot, I would not be surprised if the E-15 satellite ended up being moved there after the E-16 satellite is launched to 61.5 W in 2012.
 

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