211k w/EHD as HD DVR compared to "real" 722k (1 Viewer)

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miamicanes

SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 21, 2005
39
0
I'm thinking about switching to Dish from DirecTV, mainly because right now I'm spending about a hundred bucks a month for DirecTV service I only watch occasionally, and figure I could be paying roughly half as much for the channels I care about if I switched to Dish, got a 211k, and paid the one-time $40 EHD upgrade (I have a spare 1tb USB2 hard drive) to escape the monthly DVR fee:

* Dish America Silver ($39.99 for 12 months, $49.99 thereafter)
* Platinum HD ($10/month, free for first 3)
* one-time $40 EHD fee for 211k (no recurring fees for DVR service, right?)
* possible one-time $40-50 charge for a self-installed MT2 from Amazon (only if locals aren't free with the above... I've kind of gotten the impression that they ARE)

I can live with not being able to watch a different channel while the DVR is recording a show, or being able to record two satellite channels at once (I'm single, live alone, and all the TVs in the house are fed whatever's playing on the living room TV using component video & s-video baluns). However, my tolerance for sluggish DVR UIs is pretty low. The HR21 I got from DirecTV wasn't too bad ~3 years ago, but now it's seriously starting to annoy me (maybe the hard drive is just catastrophically fragmented after 3 years, but it really does seem like it's a LOT slower now than it used to be when bringing up the guide, showing recorded programs, etc).

So... maybe putting it another way... if I had a 722k and a 211k+EHD side by side, connected to identical TVs, how much better, faster, and nicer overall would the 722k seem compared to the 211k+EHD? Are we talking about no/minimal difference, a small-but-perceptible difference, or a "dear God, the 211k totally sucks compared to the 722k" difference?

For anybody who's used both side by side, how does a 211k+EHD operating as a DVR compare to a DirecTV HR21? Would I likely view the 211k+EHD as a step up, a step down, or more or less the same?

(for anybody who hasn't guessed yet, I'm one of those people who spend hours and hours tweaking my TV setup, programming remotes, scrutinizing video quality, and agonizing about technical details... then actually WATCH about 10 hours of real TV in a year) ;-)
 
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nuttz565

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 10, 2009
216
1
colorado
I can tell you as someone who just left my hr24 a month ago and have a 211k with a EHD now Im amazed how fast my 211 is. Response time is faster then on my HR. I'm sold on E's equipment, it's hands down the best in the game!

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys
 

miamicanes

SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 21, 2005
39
0
Wow, that's awesome news :)

Just to confirm, what I've read elsewhere... local channels are included for free, there's no monthly rental fee for the first/only box, and once I've paid the $40 one-time fee up front, there are no additional monthly fees for DVR service or EPG service, right?
 

TG2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 7, 2011
1,380
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Viginia
Just to give you a few additional things to think over..
1) The 211k has a built in OTA tuner. Using it, you can then record *two* programs at the same time, one on regular sat, one from local OTA
2) The 722k has a module bay for the MT2, with that, you get the option of recording *four* channels at once ... 2 OTA, 2 Sat. The benefit of this really comes to bare when the fall series shows start and you end up with the networks trying to pull people in during the prime time hours
3) the 722k does have the option for adding an External Hard Drive (you can't currently record to this, but you can move stuff to it) The downside to the 211k's EHD is that it can only work on a 211k ... you can not move the recordings from a 211 to say a 722 ... where as a 722 can move recordings up to a 922 and from one 722 to another (ie, if the hardware fails) etc..
4) the 722k also has the ability to do the Sling Adapter (not sure if the promotion is still on ... but basically free after rebate if its still available) The sling adapter, when working is a great piece of technology and if you can get it for nearly free ... its worth having when you want/need remote access.

Yes that downside is the 6 dollar a month DVR Fee .. but like the 211k .. if its the only receiver on your account .. you don't pay a lease fee for it.
 

miamicanes

SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 21, 2005
39
0
Uh oh, found a potential snag. I didn't even think it was *legal* to make material changes to a contract (like adding brand new fees out of the blue without allowing customers to either refuse the new fee or leave without penalty during the contract term), but apparently Dish could, with complete legality, decide to slap 211k owners who've paid the $40 EHD fee and are still under contract with the $6/month DVR fee anyway.

Argh. Now I have to agonize over the possibility that I might settle for a 211k to save the DVR fee, then get stuck paying the same amount I would have had to pay if I'd gotten a 722k anyway. An hour ago, I was 99.9% ready to put in the order, but now I'm afraid to. The 722k doesn't really add enough value to be worth voluntarily paying $6/month extra, but if they put a gun to my head 1 to 23 months from now and forced me to start paying them $6/month anyway, I'd be totally miserable with a 211k and feel totally & completely screwed every remaining day I had it once they started charging the fee unless they let me exchange my 211k for a 722k at the same time as a consolation prize. :(
 
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Mojo Jojo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 19, 2009
2,191
144
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I'm thinking about switching to Dish from DirecTV, mainly because right now I'm spending about a hundred bucks a month for DirecTV service I only watch occasionally, and figure I could be paying roughly half as much for the channels I care about if I switched to Dish, got a 211k, and paid the one-time $40 EHD upgrade (I have a spare 1tb USB2 hard drive) to escape the monthly DVR fee:

* Dish America Silver ($39.99 for 12 months, $49.99 thereafter)
* Platinum HD ($10/month, free for first 3)
* one-time $40 EHD fee for 211k (no recurring fees for DVR service, right?)
* possible one-time $40-50 charge for a self-installed MT2 from Amazon (only if locals aren't free with the above... I've kind of gotten the impression that they ARE)

(for anybody who hasn't guessed yet, I'm one of those people who spend hours and hours tweaking my TV setup, programming remotes, scrutinizing video quality, and agonizing about technical details... then actually WATCH about 10 hours of real TV in a year) ;-)

I know that some like the Dish HD only packages, but have you considered other packages? I suppose another way of saying it is "Which channels do you want, like, or "cannot live without?" No offense in saying that unless you really like just those channels in the package (which you might as well as some others might). What I like about E* after D* and cable is that there are choices. Also, from a former D* and cable sub, I do prefer E* in terms of channel choices/selections and pricing. I just want to make sure that you are aware of all the options here:
TV Channel Lineup - Satellite Channels on DISH Network

There are America's Top packages as well as Dish Latino packages (which do contain English channels) in addition to the HD only packages (I also think that Dish Family was recently added back although I would guess there are probably no new customer incentives for it rather than the regular price):

The America's Top Packages contain: America's Top 120 (reg. $44.99/mo.; $29.99/mo. for new subs for 1 year, America's Top 120 Plus (reg. $49.99/mo.; $34.99/mo. for new subs for 1 year), America's Top 200 (reg. $59.99/mo.; $39.99/mo. for new subs for 1 year), America's Top 250 (reg. $69.99/mo.; $49.99/mo. for new subs for 1 year), and America's "Everything" Pak (reg. $104.99/mo.; $84.99/mo. for new subs for 1 year).

In terms of Dish Latino, there are non-HD for Life packages such as Basico ($19.99/mo reg.--no new customer discount), Clasico ($32.99; $22.99/mo for 1 year for new subs--However, up to this pack contains mostly Spanish channels with the exception of some public interest channels, Dish CD music channels, and Disney XD), and Plus ($37.99; $27.99/mo. for 1 year for new subs--contains a few English channels like AMC, Cartoon Network, Boomerang, TBS, SyFy, We, and USA.

However, my guess is that if you went the Dish Latino route that you would be more interested in the HD for Life packages such as Dos (reg. $44.99; $29.99/mo for 1 year) and Max (reg. $57.99; $42.99/mo. for 1 year).

In addition, there are a la carte offerings. I know you mentioned Dish Platinum, and I also believe that as a new sub you will get 3 months free of it.

We started out with America's Top 250 and HD Platinum (which changed names quite a few times--now Dish Platinum), and we decided with the latest increase (just like you that over $100/mo. was insane since we did not watch TV 24/7). Of course, 4 TVs with 2 HD receivers hurts us in terms of the equipment pricing, but that hurts even with cable and D*. So, if you can live with one solo or Duo receiver, smart move. Now, we have Dish Latino Dos (and Encore Movies a la carte--which I will get to soon); it had most of the channels that we liked. Surprisingly, we even seem happier with less if that makes any sense at all. LOL Of course, we initially signed up for America's Top 250 for the Encore channels; therefore, we decided to add Encore Movies a la carte for $5/month. The only thing is that we do not get any Encore East HD; however, whatever plays on there plays on Encore West 3 hours later. We also do not get Encore WAM, but we did not watch that one as much anyway. We get MoviePlex along with Encore West (as mentioned before), Encore Love, Encore Westerns, Encore Mystery, Encore Drama, and Encore Action. Encore Mystery and MoviePlex are also in Dish Platinum. We actually did not keep the Dish Platinum for good, and from time to time, Dish offers it for 3 months free. One good thing I can say about Dish as well is that they offer freebies a lot even for subs in contracts by just asking and not having to threaten to cancel like with D*. Sometimes Dish has freebies for chatting with them like PPV coupons (although we never seem to use) as well as free months of premiums.

When comparing Dish Latino Dos to Dish America Silver, we get A&E, Cartoon Network (both East and West), CNN, Comedy Central, Discovery Channel, Food Network, HDNet, HGTV, Lifetime, Spike TV, Syfy, TBS, TLC, TNT, USA, The Weather Channel, Animal Planet, and Bravo.
What we do not get in Dish Latino Dos that is in Dish America Silver is CMT, CNBC, ESPN, ESPN 2, HD Theater (although it is the test channel that those with an HD reciever get although with no guide data and is also in Dish Platinum), History, Palladia (which is also in Dish Platinum), Travel Channel, Big Ten Network (although with E*, you have to be in the Big Ten area to just get it w/o Multisport pack), CBS Sports Network, Golf Channel, Lifetime Movie Network, msnbc, NBA TV, NFL Network, NHL Network, and WGN America. My only other guess is that maybe you are a sports fan. [If you are a sports fan, regional sports networks are included in Dos, and I believe that Multisport can be added to it. Dish Latino Max although a bit higher includes ESPN, ESPN 2, and ESPNews. Luckily for us, if we watch any sports, they would be local anyway.]
With Dish Latino Dos, we do get some channels that are not in Dish America Silver such as the following: Baby TV, Disney XD, mun2 (bilingual channel), Dish CD music channels, Tr3s ("MTV 3" bilingual channel), Telehit (plays English and Spanish music videos), Dish CD music channels 950-981, AMC, Boomerang, Nuvo TV, We TV, Fox Soccer Channel, FX, HLN (formerly Headline News Network), HorseRacing TV, Indpendent Film Channel (IFC), Ion, MTV, MTV 2, National Geographic Channel, Nickelodeon (East and West), The Hub (formerly Discovery Kids), TV Games Network, 64 Sirius XM Channels, and a lot of Spanish channels of course since it is Dish Latino. [I have been told by others that they had to ask to have Playboy en Espanol before or while ordering for $0.00 as it is included in the Basico package and above if that interests you. I also heard that it is a "bilingual" type channel with both English and Spanish. Please do not take that as being judgmental either; remember as well that if you sub to a Dish Latino package that you are already paying for it anyway. There are also locks if needed as well.).
Dos is reg. $44.99; $29.99/mo for 1 year while Dish America Silver is reg. $49.99; $39.99/mo. for 1 year. America's Top 200 is also $39.99 for the first year for new subs; after that first year, I do not see why you could not go to a lower pack as long as it meets the minimum package requirements. The Dish Latino SD or/and HD channel ranges may be different from other packs at times, but I do not think it will be a big deal for you with one HDTV and just starting with Dish if you go that route. A favorites list really covers that issue.

I do think the 211 would be a good choice. We have two non-DVR HD Duos, and I must say that with the new pricing of receivers that it would pay for us to have 211s. However, at the time we switched to E*, 2 HD Duos were $7/month (with credits from phone line connections--which for the most part to my knowledge not in play unless some existing sub has some fee still lingering on his or her bill--However, I do not think you will even have to worry about that--I am also not trying to scare you away. LOL I am just trying to tell you why we did not get 211s instead of one of the two 222ks we have). If I had to suggest a setup to someone wanting a DVR, it would include 1-2 211s. So, again, good choice. The only thing (which I do not think will make a difference to you is that I heard (and maybe someone else can confirm it) that on demand shows are not available through the 211 like the receivers that have the $6/mo. DVR fee. However, I would prefer not having a monthly DVR fee at all; so, I agree with you on that very much. I believe that the one-time fee is $39.99 for the converted DVR service. FMI on receivers: HD Receiver - HDTV Satellite Receivers - HD DVR - DISH Network
Without On Demand with a 211 (if true), there is still dishonline.com now.
Your last paragraph sounds like me. :) It is nice to know someone else is that way. However, I am sure there are others on the board as well.

I hope this helps. I tried to be honest as possible and with options. I did let you know my own insight or experience and how I thought things through. Let us know how it goes or/and what you decide. :)

Here is a pricing calculator as well if you need it: http://www.dishnetwork.com/quote_builder/calculator/calculator.html
 
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Mojo Jojo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 19, 2009
2,191
144
US
Uh oh, found a potential snag. I didn't even think it was *legal* to make material changes to a contract (like adding brand new fees out of the blue without allowing customers to either refuse the new fee or leave without penalty during the contract term), but apparently Dish could, with complete legality, decide to slap 211k owners who've paid the $40 EHD fee and are still under contract with the $6/month DVR fee anyway.


Argh. Now I have to agonize over the possibility that I might settle for a 211k to save the DVR fee, then get stuck paying the same amount I would have had to pay if I'd gotten a 722k anyway. An hour ago, I was 99.9% ready to put in the order, but now I'm afraid to. The 722k doesn't really add enough value to be worth voluntarily paying $6/month extra, but if they put a gun to my head 1 to 23 months from now and forced me to start paying them $6/month anyway, I'd be totally miserable with a 211k and feel totally & completely screwed every remaining day I had it once they started charging the fee unless they let me exchange my 211k for a 722k at the same time as a consolation prize. :(

Hopefully, someone from DIRT can answer. I believe it does say one-time fee on the receiver page. I do understand your concerns, though. I would hope that if they would charge a $6/month fee (Let's not give them any ideas. :)) that they would refund that $39.99 one or grandfather those in who already paid that fee. It would in all honesty come across as underhanded to do such a thing from the wording of "one-time." However, usually cable or/and sat companies have the right to change contract terms.
 

miamicanes

SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 21, 2005
39
0
Hmmm. Now that I think about it, there IS one thing that makes the 211k unique compared to other units with respect to the $40 one-time fee... an external hard drive on a 211k devoid of DVR capabilities would be pointless, so by definition the only reason somebody would add one is to use it as a DVR. In contrast, an external hard drive on a 722k builds upon capabilities it already has. I guess I was feeling kind of paranoid after spending 2 hours reading the complaint, feejacking, and other threads ;-)

A few other things... can you definitely get HD Platinum with a 211k? At the bottom of Dish's HD Platinum page, there's an asterisked disclaimer that claims it only works on a few units, and the 211k isn't one of them. However, there's no corresponding asterisk anywhere else on the page to indicate what the disclaimer applies to, and I can't think of any sane technical reason why a 211k shouldn't be able to handle HD Platinum channels. I suspect they're referring to on-demand movies, which I don't really care about that much (I don't think I've ever ordered anything pay-per-view in my entire life).

Also, I know they have fees for changing your base package, but what are the rules for adding and dropping HD Platinum during a contract? Can you add and drop it without paying extra fees as long as you keep it at least one full month and only drop it at the end of a natural billing month?
 

dwarren2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Pub Member / Supporter
Oct 30, 2003
4,076
287
Rochester, NY Region
Look at what you want to record. How many times are there 2 different programs on a local or Dish feed that you want to record at the same time for later watching. With a 722k you have the ability to record a program and watch a dvr'd program at the same time. I have a 722 and a 211 with and ehd and I'm glad I have the 722 as the primary dvr. There have been many times I have all 3 tuners on the 722 recording at the same time.
 

jerryez

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
4,434
893
Pensacola,FL
I have a 722k and a 211K side by side on the same tv. I can't tell the difference in the picture. I do pay a dvr fee of $6 per month for my 722k, but I never heard of a dvr fee with a 211k.
 
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Mojo Jojo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 19, 2009
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Also, I know they have fees for changing your base package, but what are the rules for adding and dropping HD Platinum during a contract? Can you add and drop it without paying extra fees as long as you keep it at least one full month and only drop it at the end of a natural billing month?

A programming change fee of $5 is applied when you remove services within 30 days of adding them (Waived for new customers in their first 60 days of service).

A programming change fee of $25 is applied when you remove Protection Plan within 5 months of adding to your account.

A programming change fee of $20 is applied when you remove Adult services within 30 days of adding them (Waived for new customers in their first 60 days of service).

I hope that helps.
 

JM42

SatelliteGuys Pro
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 25, 2010
1,748
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I wouldn't worry too much about a DVR fee being added to the 211. Yes they could do it, but Dish generally seems pretty good about grandfathering these type of things when policies change. "Never say never" but I doubt there would be an issue until the 211 needs replacing.

I can't really tell much difference in operation between the 211 and 722 with most operations. The external drive on the 211 is pretty seamless.

That being said, I would not go back to a single tuner for my primary TV. I use a 722 in single mode and don't think I could go back to TV without my swap button. It's the type of thing you don't miss if you have never had it, but once used to it you will feel deprived without it. It's worth the $6 fee to me.

Also, I don't think the 211s have UHF remote capability. With the 722 you can control it from another room even if you keep it in single mode.
 

Mojo Jojo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 19, 2009
2,191
144
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In addition, I do not think that we discussed that the 211 has independent viewing for 1 HDTV and the 722 has independent viewing for 1 HDTV and 1 SDTV. Just wanted to make sure that you knew that, too (if you did not already, though).
 

Laddyboy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 12, 2006
3,149
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Central IL/SW FL/Big Island
I wouldn't worry too much about a DVR fee being added to the 211. Yes they could do it, but Dish generally seems pretty good about grandfathering these type of things when policies change. "Never say never" but I doubt there would be an issue until the 211 needs replacing.

I can't really tell much difference in operation between the 211 and 722 with most operations. The external drive on the 211 is pretty seamless.

That being said, I would not go back to a single tuner for my primary TV. I use a 722 in single mode and don't think I could go back to TV without my swap button. It's the type of thing you don't miss if you have never had it, but once used to it you will feel deprived without it. It's worth the $6 fee to me.

Also, I don't think the 211s have UHF remote capability. With the 722 you can control it from another room even if you keep it in single mode.

E* is starting to charge for the 501/708 DVRs that used to be free of DVR fees? I wouldn't be surprised to see them start charging a DVR fee for 211/211ks at some point.
 
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