522 modulation

[bdtech]

Hey Guys, we just started installing Dish a few weeks ago. It seems every dual tuner we install, if we try to use the existing house wiring for the modulation for TV2 the signal is horrible. Is this not an option? Of course all the houses have several splitters installed. Do we just need to eliminate the splitters and go direct from TV2 out on the 522 to the TV2?

Thanks,

 

[chaddux]

Hey Guys, we just started installing Dish a few weeks ago. It seems every dual tuner we install, if we try to use the existing house wiring for the modulation for TV2 the signal is horrible. Is this not an option? Of course all the houses have several splitters installed. Do we just need to eliminate the splitters and go direct from TV2 out on the 522 to the TV2?

Thanks,

The splitters are probably severely degrading the signal and the cable is probably RG59 which isn't helping either.

 

[bdtech]

Yes, the existing cable is RG59. I think the installs would go much quicker if we just pull in new cable

 

[Stargazer]

Try selecting a channel 73 and above in cable mode. It will help improve the picture quality greatly.

 

[dishrich]

Try putting a 10db amp on the output of the receiver to make up for the RG-59 loss.

 

[bdtech]

73 and higher is what we go with on the receiver but we have found that on TV2 it may lock it in on 116 or 121, etc... We have one case that the customer has an older TV that will only scan up to 99 and it won't pick up the signal at all. We have tried both air and cable

 

[MikeD-C05]

I have all RG6 cable from my cable company as well as from Dish. IF we use the RG6 cable from the cable company , and it is not connected to the Cable company any longer, can I use channel 3 or 4 ? I mean can I just run the signal from the 522 over the cable to a vcr in the other room and then be able to see the output on that channel. It shouldn't cause any problems on channel 3 as no channel is broadcasting over the air on that channel right? It doesn't have to be hooked just to a tv right? I would like it to be able to run through my 4 year old son's vcr, and then to the tv, so he can watch vcr tapes when he is not watching satellite tv. The dish guy is coming Thursday to install, so any help would be appreciated.

 

[bdtech]

Hey guys, just to follow up on the degraded signal. We took the splitters out of the picture this evening (I found another 4-way splitter for a total of 1-2way and 2 4-way). Picture looks great on all TVs !

Mike, I can't remember what channel Air modulation starts on, But I think Cable starts at channel 69 or 70. You can still have your VCR modulate to channel 3 or 4 to the TV if you don't use RCA or S-video. You will just need to have your VCR find the signal from the 522. Your Dish installer should be able to take care of that for you.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Just remember: The TV1 output is channel 3 or 4 only and is mono.
TV2 is UHF or Cable and MTS Stereo.

 

[supereal]

We have found that, in most cases, preexisting distribution systems have amplifiers that will not pass enough TV2 signal to produce a good picture in distant locations. Many were designed to carry VHF channels 2-13 only. With good amps, RG-59 is adequate, and most splitters will work. Installers should warn customers about this so they won't blame the new equipment.

 

[7thton]

This might be a complete noob question, but how do you tell the difference between RG6 and RG59?

Yes, the existing cable is RG59. I think the installs would go much quicker if we just pull in new cable

 

[JohnL]

We have found that, in most cases, preexisting distribution systems have amplifiers that will not pass enough TV2 signal to produce a good picture in distant locations. Many were designed to carry VHF channels 2-13 only. With good amps, RG-59 is adequate, and most splitters will work. Installers should warn customers about this so they won't blame the new equipment.

Prexisting amplifiers that will not pass enough TV2 signal? Actually the answer is more complex than that.

Signal distribution can be tricky. First all channels on the same distribution should be relatively close to the same strength signal. Next all amplifiers amplify everything on that feed including NOISE (BTW that noise is produced across the entire spectrum the Amp, so if you have a noisy feed it is magnifying that noise all channels as well as on the channel of the 522 Modulated Output resulting in poor or NO performance, I assume you realize you can't have two signal sources on the same channel assignment even if one source is only noise, it still interferes with the other source).

Poor quality cable will magnify the noise making the amplifier less than useless as it is making more noise. Noise is more of the enemy than the strength of signal. Any decent Tuner can resolve a picture even from a Low signal provided that source is a clean Noise free feed. Lastly because inexpensive (Non-commercial) modulators do produce a signal that bleeds into the adjacent channels you should be sure to pick a UHF Channel that is empty on the intended channel as well as both the next lower and higher channel as well. If you don't you will again magnify the noise on that cable feed.

A better quality noise free cable feed will ALWAYS be better than a noisey feed on cheap cable with an amplifier. RG6 is is the best way to go. RG59 will not give you very good results even if you add that amplifier.

I built my own Mini Headend system and after much tinkering it works great. Again be sure to balance the signals if one source is much higher than another then get some attenuators to balance the loads of all mixed feeds.

I have combined two OTA Antennas feeding a total of 8 SD channels, with a feed of a preamped UHF feed combined from Three Triple Modulators as well as the Modulated output from a 522 all into my distribution system. My results are very good, even better than my local Cable companies PQ.

John

 

[TuxCoder]

My "mini headend" works great too, 10 distributed channels, no amplifiers. The two most distant TVs show just some minor weakness in the picture, but mainly on the 522 TV2 channel. My other modulated sources have a solid strong picture on all TVs.

 

[supereal]

supereal

John: I agree that poor bandpass on old amps is not the entire problem in many cases. but repulling coax is not always possible or desirable. We just did a large system where the modulated TV2 output was barely readable on the existing system. New amps cleaned it up. Yes, amps will boost noise, too, so having a clean input is a must. For non-HD systems RG59 is still adequate, provided it has crimp-on connectors, and some clown hasn't stapled it in place, damaging the spacing between the shield and conductor. We see a lot of that. It destroys the impedence and will drain the signal to the point where there is more snow than video.

 

[SimpleSimon]

... For non-HD systems RG59 is still adequate ...

I assume you mean analog systems. HD is always transmitted digitally (ATSC), but not all ATSC is HD.

 

[supereal]

Yes. That's why I mentioned HD in my post. Most HD setups we see are not using coax between the TV1 receiver and monitor, anyway. Using component video and optical audio can make a huge difference in any system. Too bad TV2 is plain old composite output on the 522.