622 HDMI picture dull compared to component

Hall

Hall

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Feb 14, 2004
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A fairly safe rule is if your TV is actually analog, i.e. a CRT HDTV or rear-projection HDTV, using DVI or HDMI is almost "worse". It adds another conversion to the process.

I have a rear-projection HDTV and *prefer* the look of component vs DVI.
 
NightRyder

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I have a 50" DLP rear projection. You think component would be better?

All you can do is try it and see. I have a 50" DLP and I prefer HDMI. To me Component looks glassy and fake, especially on films, but each to their own.

NightRyder
 
NightRyder

NightRyder

1978 Y88 T/A 6.6 4 spd 1978-2020 RIP
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The channels that are true HD and arent over-compressed look great. I just thought, after reading this, maybe they are suppose to look better.

It's personal preference. My father was a TV repairman so I grew up watching properly calibrated sets. I prefer a natural looking picture over one that most people would say "Pops". That doesn't make my preference or anyone else's right or wrong just different.

NightRyder
 
J

JEFFinINDY

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Jul 31, 2004
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Indianapolis, IN
Exactly what i was thinking.
My samssung has independant adjustments for each output, so even putting them on the same settings isnt really a fair comparison. Try some adjustments and see what you can do

My set (a 61" JVC LCoS) keeps one set of settings for all HD sources and one set of settings for SD, so the settings were the same. Also, the HDMI was going from the 622 through an Onkyo receiver to the TV. The component cables are are going from the 622 directly to the TV.

There are still more variables to rule out, but so far the picture is better on component in a very subtle way that I haven't yet been able to tweak away in the settings.
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

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If I optimize my settings for component and then compare component to HDMI, then the component picture is much better. The HDMI picture looks washed out with terrible blacks.

If I optimize my settings to HDMI and then compare component to HDMI, then the HDMI picture is much better. The component picture has terrible black crush and colors are muted.

If I compare the optimized component picture to the optimized HDMI picture, then there is a slight edge to HDMI. It is a bit sharper, the blacks a bit better, and the colors a bit more vibrant. The component picture is very good on good sources, but I'd say that overall, it is about 95% as good as HDMI on my set.

This is using a Panasonic CRT-RP HDTV and a 622 receiver, using both E* HD and OTA HD channels. It is also using pretty good quality component video cables, from AudioQuest, vs an $8 HDMI cable from monoprice.
 
memo90061

memo90061

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Aug 26, 2007
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i cant decided which one looks better on my olevia tv.. i ALWAYS change the picture settings and it takes me a VERY long time to have the colors/brightness/contrast back to how i want them! its weird i even write on paper where i had teh settings and i change it back to that but it doesnt look the same. i like having it with bright colors.
 
Sigma

Sigma

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Mar 30, 2007
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I've had my Toshiba HDTV and 622 for over 6 months and always felt that the picture looked somewhat subdued, but I had been connected through the HDMI cable since day 1.

Hooked up the component cables for the first time last night, and there is definitely an improvement in the picture quality.

Now to readjust the HDTV settings ... :)
 
B

bhelms

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Yet another article:

See it here
Interesting! This is the first time that I saw that there is a time component to digital signal degradation. Is this really true? I wish they elaborated on that more! Is there something in an HDMI/DVI cable itself that degrades in finite time enough to affect the signal quality? If so, how, and how long does it take? In the comparison of expensive to cheap digital cables (I own both) we have always assumed that, since we're dealing with 0s and 1s, that there should be no difference in how a cheap cable transmits the data vs. a more expensive one. (This is NOT necessarily true in the analog world where other factors like good shielding have a more significant influence.) Now there is another aspect to consider in the digital world? Enquiring minds want to know...!!!
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

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That article only gives surface treatment to several topics. It never gets around to stating why HDMI degrades over time. And it never actually states if HDMI or component video quality is better. If anyone, it implies that for a short run, a HDMI connection is better.

For example this statement implies that HDMI is better, just not hugely better: "Because of its universality with one single input for audio and sound, HDMI has become the much preferred standard for HDTV hook-ups. That doesn't mean it necessarily has a huge leaps-and-bounds advantage over component, though."

I agree that component is more reliable. HDMI has been implemented in very uneven ways. Different HDMI standards, significant variations in the quality of the parts in the HDMI input and output sections from box to box, etc. I have no doubts that on some HDTVs that the video quality would be better using component. I'm also not sold on E*'s receivers having top notch HDMI output stages.
 
W

winehead

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Oct 1, 2007
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Not so fast...

OK first post !! So I just read the HDMI vs Component article. It smacks of someone trying to justify component. He talks about conversions that happen in an HDMI cable and talks about degradation over time but provides absolutely no evidence, research, or examples of how and where. ie - no details. This is the sort of assumption apon assumption apon assumption that attempts to misdirect the reader into forgetting the first big leap in logic.

My own personal experience is that HDMI is very slightly better than component, but not enough to justify changing my system to use it. My B&K switches component but not HDMI so I go with component. Now when I get my HDDVD or BLU-RAY and want the sweet 1080P, then I will have to as I hear that component doesn't support 1080P.

My 2C
 
J

JEFFinINDY

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Jul 31, 2004
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Indianapolis, IN
OK first post !! So I just read the HDMI vs Component article. It smacks of someone trying to justify component. He talks about conversions that happen in an HDMI cable and talks about degradation over time but provides absolutely no evidence, research, or examples of how and where. ie - no details. This is the sort of assumption apon assumption apon assumption that attempts to misdirect the reader into forgetting the first big leap in logic.

My own personal experience is that HDMI is very slightly better than component, but not enough to justify changing my system to use it. My B&K switches component but not HDMI so I go with component. Now when I get my HDDVD or BLU-RAY and want the sweet 1080P, then I will have to as I hear that component doesn't support 1080P.

My 2C

I wasn't thrilled with that article either. I didn't get the sense that there was anything authoritative being written there, because nothing was really backed up or proven.

That said, I'm still convinced that the 622 does a better job on component output than HDMI. Before last weekend, I had an all HDMI connection from the 622 to my receiver to my TV. When I went component direct from the 622 to the TV it was a subtle-but-noticeable improvement, and tonight I have component and optical audio going from the 622 to the receiver to the TV and the PQ improvements remain.

It's not that the HDMI PQ was bad or anything... and the key word is "subtle."
 
bigthrust

bigthrust

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Mar 30, 2004
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OK, I tested HDMI vs Component on my 40" Westinghouse See it here if you are curious. I have a VIP622 as the HD source for this TV. I painstakingly adjusted component to look as good as possible. Ran POP (side by side compare) and even got my wife in on it as a second opinion. Component did look good, very good in fact. HDMI just looked a bit better. HDMI showed more depth in the image and more saturation to colors (including black) without bleeding. However, component looked more "film like" and smoother than HDMI. I just like the "crispness" that HDMI brings to the screen on this TV. It is funny, this TV looks like crap out of the box, but once the tweak it out, it looks fantastic. I have tested my older JVC 56" HD rear-projection CRT downstairs and by far my HDMI to DVI converter cable looks MUCH better than component.
 
W

winehead

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Oct 1, 2007
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0
Maybe the receiver?

Another thing to keep in mind is that receivers add their own signal processing. So if the 622 (or in my case a 942 - upgrading as soon as I can get 2 HD DVR's on E* tab) is the source and you go through a receiver for HDMI and direct for component, it's not an apples to apples test. For my experiment, I setup the TV using my DVD player and the Avia Guide to Home Theater disk (worth the money !) and then tried both HDMI and component direct from the 942 watching the same scene (an outdoor panoramic with nice cinematography). My results were the same as bigthrust. Colors were slightly more accurate and white and blacks were rendered more cleanly. But like I said, the differences were not enough to justify a special connection setup just for that. I like my B&K doing all the switching because of it's customizable macros.
 
P

primetimeguy

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Oct 4, 2006
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Digging up an old thread here, but I finally found my solution to the "dull" HDMI output on the 622. I have a RP CRT (Sony KP-57WS510) which is fully calibrated by myself. For a very long time I have always used component inputs on the TV for Dish, HD DVD and Blu-Ray, all because the HDMI-to-DVI connection seemed dull on all devices compared to component and even after calibration the colors were not correct. And this was evident in the calibrations as well, the DVI input on my TV always seemed off.

Anyway, I was finally doing some more digging in the service menu and came upon a MTRX register (I've actually played around with it a long time ago), which controls how color is displayed, Rec 601 (SD) or rec 709 (HD). I had it set to "1" for HD just like all of my 1080i component inputs as this seemed like the logical correct setting. For the heck of it I switched it to "0" and the "HD pop" came back on DVI. I then threw on the colorimeter and sure enough, component and DVI inputs now were exactly the same.

So I'm not sure where the problem lies (what the 622 puts out or what my TV is expecting on this input) but when I set this register to "0" for SD colorspace they both seem to agree and I get the correct color.

So those of you with the "dull" issue, if you are using an HDMI-DVI connection it may have something to do with the handshaking going on and/or how your TV is expecting the data from the 622.
 
AekaGSR

AekaGSR

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Jun 2, 2008
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huge difference going back to component for me as well. I guess they put more love in their component outputs on these 622/722 boxes.
 
8

8bitbytes

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Sep 8, 2003
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0
NoVA
Digging up an old thread here, but I finally found my solution to the "dull" HDMI output on the 622. I have a RP CRT (Sony KP-57WS510) which is fully calibrated by myself. For a very long time I have always used component inputs on the TV for Dish, HD DVD and Blu-Ray, all because the HDMI-to-DVI connection seemed dull on all devices compared to component and even after calibration the colors were not correct. And this was evident in the calibrations as well, the DVI input on my TV always seemed off.

Anyway, I was finally doing some more digging in the service menu and came upon a MTRX register (I've actually played around with it a long time ago), which controls how color is displayed, Rec 601 (SD) or rec 709 (HD). I had it set to "1" for HD just like all of my 1080i component inputs as this seemed like the logical correct setting. For the heck of it I switched it to "0" and the "HD pop" came back on DVI. I then threw on the colorimeter and sure enough, component and DVI inputs now were exactly the same.

So I'm not sure where the problem lies (what the 622 puts out or what my TV is expecting on this input) but when I set this register to "0" for SD colorspace they both seem to agree and I get the correct color.

So those of you with the "dull" issue, if you are using an HDMI-DVI connection it may have something to do with the handshaking going on and/or how your TV is expecting the data from the 622.
Great find! Thanks for coming back and posting!
 

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