811 PQ Problems ... Still!

G

gsldc

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Sep 14, 2004
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I have had the 811 since 12-03. Still bad SD PQ even with all the updates. I have a Toshiba 51HX83 with DVI. The DVI looks a bit better than the S-video, but the PQ is still dark, grainy, pixilated. Especially with any live shows. Unwatchable. But HDTV looks great through DVI at 1080i.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I set my SD at something different than 1080i? Should I do that on the 811 or the TV, or both? How do I do that on the 811? Can you set different outputs for HD (1080i) and SD (780)??

Help!
 
H

Harry

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 11, 2003
305
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Las Cruces, NM
If you have multiple inputs on your Toshiba, try running the composite (RWY) or S-Video cables to an SD input on your TV to watch SD programming.

I have a Hitachi 48" and watch most stuff through the DVI. (HD & SD) The HD stuff is very good and most SD is ok. At times (usually a live game on ESPN) some things look pretty bad so I watch it through my VCR that is fed by composite cable from the 811 and into a SD input on the TV.
 
W

WeeJavaDude

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 25, 2003
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SoCal
gsldc said:
I have had the 811 since 12-03. Still bad SD PQ even with all the updates. I have a Toshiba 51HX83 with DVI. The DVI looks a bit better than the S-video, but the PQ is still dark, grainy, pixilated. Especially with any live shows. Unwatchable. But HDTV looks great through DVI at 1080i.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I set my SD at something different than 1080i? Should I do that on the 811 or the TV, or both? How do I do that on the 811? Can you set different outputs for HD (1080i) and SD (780)??

Help!

Need more input in terms of your configuration. What version of software is your 811 running (Look at the SysInfo). Is it running 2.80? The fact that you state the PQ on DVI is a bit better than Svideo sounds a bit odd.

No you cannot set different outputs for HD and SD. YOu can try changing your DVI output to 720p and see if that improves matters. My guess is that it does not. The darkness problem was mainly an issue with SVideo, the fact that you say it is also on your DVI would make me think something else is wrong.. Can you hook something else to your DVI and test it? Have you tried hooking your 811 to component and see if things improve?

You should be getting a bright picture now, the fact that you are not makes me thing, either you don't have the latest software or something else is a miss. Time to take a look at other possibilities and start a little trouble shooting to determine why?
 
G

gsldc

Thread Starter
Member
Sep 14, 2004
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I checked with Dish and I have the most recent software.

The HD channels look incredible on the DVI, so it's not that.

My standard definition looks bad on all outputs, worst on S-video.

I will try the 720 setting to see if it helps, but I doubt it.

I was told by the guy calibrating my TV that this problem is because Dish tries to squeeze too many channels on limited bandwidth, and the HDTV reveals all the flaws.

Anyone have better luck with DirectTV's HD?
 
W

WeeJavaDude

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 25, 2003
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SoCal
gsldc said:
I checked with Dish and I have the most recent software.

The HD channels look incredible on the DVI, so it's not that.

My standard definition looks bad on all outputs, worst on S-video.

I will try the 720 setting to see if it helps, but I doubt it.

I was told by the guy calibrating my TV that this problem is because Dish tries to squeeze too many channels on limited bandwidth, and the HDTV reveals all the flaws.

Anyone have better luck with DirectTV's HD?

Well your Calibrating guy is correct. Not sure what you are expecting in terms of SD quality. How big is your set? How far are you sitting away from it..

Yes HDTV will show the flaws of MPEG2 compression that is optimized for a 27" TV. This happens with both Dish and Direct and Cable digital. Depending on your TV your mileage will vary.

Here are a few tips to improve things.

1) Search the net for tips on imporving PQ from DBS viewing.
2) Power conditionar might help. It improved my PQ for sure. Mileage will vary.
3) Usually your TVs line doubler will be better than what the 811 can do and you might get improved PQ using the svideo. You state that you don't.
4) Use the Mild or Standard settings of your TV. Do not use the Vivid Type settings.
5) Sounds like you are having your TV calibrated so I won't mention that one.

What is your TV make and Model. Maybe someone with the same model can provide some additional tips.
 
G

gsldc

Thread Starter
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Sep 14, 2004
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As stated above, I have a 2003 Toshiba 51HX83.

What do you mean by power conditoner?

I just boughta Yamaha Rx750 receiver which lets you upconvert from S-video to component. I will try that, too.

It might just be Dish & my TV, since I never had PQ with my old tube non-HDTV. I am thinking of taking the $999 plunge at getting the DirectTV HD Tivo.
 
Kevinw

Kevinw

Just a regular guy
Pub Member / Supporter
Dec 2, 2003
2,992
13
Jacksonville, FL
Try using component instead of DVI. Have you done any mutlipoint convergence? Have you used a HT set up disk.
Some SD channels will never look good. Garbage In Garbage out.
An improvement over all can be had but you need to have a 65 point convergence done and have the Contrast-Color calibrated.
Was the person calibrating your TV a ISF certified technician or a service guy from Toshiba?
 
SimpleSimon

SimpleSimon

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Feb 29, 2004
5,692
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Florissant, CO
gsldc said:
... What do you mean by power conditoner? ...
At the very least a surge/RFI power protector. Better yet is a UPS box. Best is a UPS plugged into a surge protector. Make sure you protect your phone and satellite feed cables, too.

I use a CyberPower strip from WalMart. High enough rating (joules), and plenty of protection ports (phone, LAN, and 2 coax).
 
S

skybird

Member
Sep 10, 2004
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811 PQ problems

I agree with gsldc. Your configuration is the key. DVI cable should blow away s-video unless there is something else that is ammiss. ;)
Power Conditioner = 200-300.00 device that filters out unwanted wave forms in your electricity. Motors from a refrigerator or even a exhaust fan can induce electrical noise. In most cases that is not a factor with a TV's reproduction capability. Wavy lines and such across the screen when one of these appliances is active means you have a problem there. The popular method is spike protection which protects you from high voltage spikes from a power company or lightning strike. These devices are in no way a filter for "dirty electricity" which affects power factor to your TV. In the old days a mixer mixing up a cake, would cause the TV signal to band across the screen. This is rare now days.
 
SimpleSimon

SimpleSimon

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Feb 29, 2004
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skybird: Normal surge protector strips also have EMI/RFI filters built-in. They are not of the level of a true power conditioner, but especially when used in conjunction with a decent UPS, almost all consumers should be just fine.
 
W

WeeJavaDude

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 25, 2003
766
0
SoCal
gsldc said:
What do you mean by power conditoner?

I use a Monster HTS 2500 Power conditionar. I noticed a big improvement when I installed this unit compared to unconditioned power at my home. Simon has a UPS and has indicated that it can do the same thing. Mileage may vary here depending on how dirty your AC is.
 
W

WeeJavaDude

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 25, 2003
766
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SoCal
skybird said:
I agree with gsldc. Your configuration is the key. DVI cable should blow away s-video unless there is something else that is ammiss. ;)
Power Conditioner = 200-300.00 device that filters out unwanted wave forms in your electricity. Motors from a refrigerator or even a exhaust fan can induce electrical noise. In most cases that is not a factor with a TV's reproduction capability. Wavy lines and such across the screen when one of these appliances is active means you have a problem there. The popular method is spike protection which protects you from high voltage spikes from a power company or lightning strike. These devices are in no way a filter for "dirty electricity" which affects power factor to your TV. In the old days a mixer mixing up a cake, would cause the TV signal to band across the screen. This is rare now days.

Well in my case I did see a PQ improvement that was very noticable by all members in the household. I was just throwing it out as a suggestion if you are looking for the best PQ you can possible get as something to look into.

I am not saying this is the be all and it will magically change your SD into HD quality. SD is not for 60" TV to begin with and if the expectations are the same picture sharpness from 8 feet as your 27" TV seems to show, you are heading for a rude awakening.

Big screen HDTVs shine the better quality the source material is. That is a fact. I am not sure if this thread might be be along those line.. I remember my transition period going from an analog 36" RCA to my Sony 60" GWII.

The four things I did to improve PQ.

1) Calibrate my TV using Avia.
2) Sit as far back as I can from the set. ;) I am 12' for the 60"
3) Use DVI
4) Install a Power conditionar.
 
Carl B

Carl B

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Dec 13, 2003
920
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Arvada, CO
5) Use good cable with good connectors (e.g., RG-6QS w/ compression fittings if possible; no push-on coax connections; little or no RG-59).
 

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