A question for installers

[miguelaqui]

When I worked for a cable company, we only used flooded cable for underground installs. I was told NEVER to put the non-flooded cable underground, that it would go bad very quickly.

If the cable broke, we had gel packs to enclose the connectors. I was told NEVER to splice an underground cable without a gel pack. Sometimes, if a cable had been cut and a gel pack was used, they will still send a tech out to bury a new drop.

I have yet to met a D* or E* installer who had true underground cable with the flooding compound. They used the siamese dual cable, not even quad-shielded, with the ground; most of the time either Perfect Vision or Vextra.

My question is.... Has anyone ever seen the cable go bad ?

 

[webbydude]

When I worked for various cable companies, I was told the same thing about the flooded cabling; weather proof, more durable, etc. To be honest, I really do wish the satellite industry would adopt the gelcap concept. It would help my piece of mind.

As to whether non-flooded cabling makes a difference? I have yet to see that. Matter of fact, in this area, Time Warner is not even using flooding on residential underground anymore. Too expensive for a small chance that it MAY save the cabling.

 

[mudder1310]

The underground cable does have a tougher jacket and the goo inside to fill any slices so it's better for sure. Our office has the gel splice covers but I carry a roll of underground and usually just replace bad cable. The only downside is it's orange.

The only real problems I find with regular cable when it's buried is when it gets cut.

 

[miguelaqui]

The underground cable does have a tougher jacket and the goo inside to fill any slices so it's better for sure. Our office has the gel splice covers but I carry a roll of underground and usually just replace bad cable. The only downside is it's orange.

I love that orange cable! Carry with you to the customer's house and say, "I'm here to do the install," and see the look on their face when they think you are going to use that orange cable in the house! Then it won't look so bad when you have to install the black, grey, etc....

I do like it as far as putting on the ground before burial b/c people can see it. On the other hand, Comcast near Richmond, VA, redid a lot of their underground drops and it does look odd having all that orange cable going up the pole, too cheap to splice it or they just do not care.

 

[JPointerWI]

That alone is part of the reason the company I work for doesnt do pole mounts unless we absolutly have to. I know Dish Network doesnt approve of roof mounts, but out of the hundres of dishes we have put on roofs, not a single one has ever leaked. I dont understand how dealers can afford to do pole mounts. The extra cost of poles, concrete, the time it takes to dig the hole and wait for the concrete to set before u can put the dish on the pole, and the huge cost of direct bury cable. I dont udnerstand how they can afford to do it for free as part of a "standard professional install"

 

[fishman]

if E* started issuing cable and connectors, like the cable companies do, I would have no problem using flooded cable. Since we cant charge the customer for pole mounts, and we do alot down here, they are getting regular old cable.

 

[mudder1310]

Dish Network allows roof mounts, they just want you to try and make it a last resort.

 

[goaliebob99]

regular cable lasts just as long as long as it is not cut..

 

[Fredinva]

Standard RG6 will last as long as anything else without problems, unless cut.
My pole mounted Dish system is using original buried RG6 installed with my old C-band system from 1986.

We'll avoid roof mounted dishes if at all possible.
We charge an extra $35 for pole mounted systems (not a standard installation).

fred

 

[miguelaqui]

As far as a pole mount, those of you charging extra for it, what do you do when the CSR from E* is telling the customer that it is included with the standard installation, along with 50 feet of trenching? Then a superviser in the call center gets on the phone and tells you that you cannot do that. I've heard of that happening.

I agree, it is a bit much to dig the hole, concrete, and trench.

As far as E* issuing connectors like the cable companies use...I've always seen E* installers with either Snap-n-Seal or Sterling. I've seen D* installers, around here, use hex crimp, the kind that corrode and turn white after a few months and can be easily pulled off.

 

[webbydude]

My understanding is that Dish "prefers" their installers to use PPC EXXL fittings. They're stainless steel AND they have an extra gasket seal that the EX fittings (that would be the type most cable systems are using now) don't have. They're a lot tougher to pull off and by their nature, don't corrode

 

[Bob Haller]

Any cable underground is best run in conduit. When a cable goes bad just hook old to new securely and pull gently.

WAY easier than digging again.

Incidently I think regular coax starts to degrade by 5 years, after checking some RG6 at a friends. I stripped it out of curosity, it was stiff, the copper was corroded and starting to erode a bit. the plastic sheath was getting too hard, almost crumbling.

just my 2 cents

 

[miguelaqui]

My understanding is that Dish "prefers" their installers to use PPC EXXL fittings. They're stainless steel AND they have an extra gasket seal that the EX fittings (that would be the type most cable systems are using now) don't have. They're a lot tougher to pull off and by their nature, don't corrode

Where is the extra gasket? They both have those gaskets that should keep moisture out, even when not fully tightened. The PCT has an extra gasket; one on both sides of the mandril.

The EX has a longer hex nut and costs the same as the EXXL. I thought the only difference between the two was that the EXXL could be used with Digicon and SNS tools. Basically, the EXXL is more plastic and less hex nut, from what I can see.

A lot of European companies use the PPCs also.

I have also noticed, one of the local cable systems started using the EX about 2 years ago here, the quality varies from pack to pack. Some of the RG11 connectors, that were installed 2 years ago, are white with corrosion now. Some of the RG6 connectors are the same way and, on most of them, the black plastic has turned white. I wonder how much longer the plastic will hold up?

The guy in charge of installation convinced the company into letting them switch back to SNS b/c he said they used SNS for 15 years, they were one of the first companies to use them in 1989, and never saw a single one go bad that was applied properly; some of the PPCs where splitting when applied to quad-shielded cable.

I think any compression connector should be better than those crimp ones the D* guys use around here.

 

[mudder1310]

The extra gasket is between the body of the fitting and the crown at the neck where it spins. Even with it, the maker recommends using the appropriate rubber sleeves with them so water doesn't weep up the threads.

Also, most all new compression type fittings have the same throw length during compression, making it easier to find compatible crimpers.

As an aside, nearly any fitting, properly installed and using proper drip loops, can last a good long time.