Am I insane? Quality degradation w/ new dish (1 Viewer)

ianai

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Hampton, VA
Hello all! Forgive me, for I'm only partially in-the-know when it comes to my satellite and it's functionality. I'll do my best to convey what we're seeing here.

So I got all excited about FSCHD, having been waiting for an eternity for them to switch, only to find out that when they did, I didn't recieve it. So, with little effort I scheduled an appointment to have my setup altered. I had two dishes on the roof and I think got 61.5, 110 and 119..those may be slightly off. Anyway, despite not getting all the channels the quality was incredible.

I just had the two replaced with a single dish which picks up the new channels and a new satellite. Now I get 77, 72, 61.5 and have verified that I'm getting all of the new channels. I haven't noticed the loss of any and am assuming that won't happen. So, here's the question. Am I losing my mind? Paranoid? The quality of the HD seems much lower than before. We see some pixelation on things and some streaky like behavior. The wife noticed immediately.

The tech said there's no way the quality is any less, it doesn't work like that and he's probably right, but why are both of our eyes deceiving us, on both TV's with everything else unchanged?

Also, now channels that previously stretched-to-fit automatically are coming in with black bars when the show is SD on an HD channel. That doesn't bother me, but it is a complete change in behavior from what we were seeing previously.

Is it possible that the bandwidth is lower or something? I'm on the east coast, mid-atlantic and I guess I've just switched from an Eastern Arc to a Western Arc. Did having two dishes increase the bandwidth? Am I a nutjob?

Thanks!
 

ianai

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Hampton, VA
Thanks for the no-nonsense response ;)

62.5's strength changes about every second and varies from 40-48.
72 is a solid lock at a strength of 62
77 is also holds solid at 62.

I noticed the "in the red" range is much lower than it was the last time I did this, which was probably a couple of years ago.

EDIT:

I checked the bedroom tv and it was odd. Basically the same results, but when I first pulled up 62.5 it was in like the 70 range. Then I checked the other two, came back to 62.5 and it hovered between 38 and 45..the weather is fine outside. A touch overcast, but no rain or snow. Not sure if this info is useful, but it struck me as odd.
 
Last edited:

tstolze

Pub Member / Supporter
Jul 23, 2007
354
0
O'fallon, MO
Check the output settings on your receiver(s), it's possible it was reset to a lower resolution. You would want either 720 or 1080 depending on your display/personal preference.

It could also be the zoom level was changed, this is the * button for my 722 or format button. Cycle through until you get what you like.
 

ianai

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Hampton, VA
Ahh yes, I forgot to mention that I'd checked all of that. Both are set to 1080i, which is what my two tv's are. I am able to cycle the zoom, but that isn't really the issue. The addition of the black bars to the channels just struck me as odd as we hadn't had that previously. Everything in SD just got stretched by default when the HD channels were broadcasting in SD. Now, instead there are black bars in the signal. That's not a big deal, it just seemed to indicate a difference in how it is being broadcast from the new satellite.
 

MikeD-C05

Pub Member / Supporter
Pub Member / Supporter
Nov 25, 2003
26,188
16,123
Nederland , Texas
The numbers on the 61.5 sat seem low to me. I am getting between a low of 45 on three transponders to a high of 70 on my eastern arc dish. On the 72.7 sat between 60-70. On the 77 sat I am getting between 50 - 58 .

61.5 sat

01) 0
02) 59
03) 62
04) 0
05) 68 spotbeam
06) 0
07) 0
08) 56
09) 58 spotbeam
10) 60
11) 57 spotbeam
12) 0
13) 45 spotbeam
14) 70
15) 0
16) 45
170 0
18) 59
19) 45
20) 46
21) 53
22) 0
23) 50
24) 55
25) 53
26) 0
27) 50
28) 48
29) 60
30) 50
31) 50
32) 45


Maybe your installer sacrificed signal strength on the 61.5 sat to give you so much signal on the 77 sat? Why don't you post the other strengths on your 61.5 transponders and be sure you specify if it is a spotbeam.
 

JohnL

Pub Member / Supporter
Sep 23, 2003
1,411
92
Spencerport, NY
Ahh yes, I forgot to mention that I'd checked all of that. Both are set to 1080i, which is what my two tv's are. I am able to cycle the zoom, but that isn't really the issue. The addition of the black bars to the channels just struck me as odd as we hadn't had that previously. Everything in SD just got stretched by default when the HD channels were broadcasting in SD. Now, instead there are black bars in the signal. That's not a big deal, it just seemed to indicate a difference in how it is being broadcast from the new satellite.

Ianai,

There is a Format button at the bottom of the HD receiver remotes. It's the Asterisk button under the 7 Key. Each press cycles the receiver between the different Display modes. If you are viewing a 16x9 HD channel the Format should be set to normal.

If you are watching SD you have several choices if you want the entire screen filled you can use Stretch (but this distorts the aspect ratio) or Zoom This mode will fill the screen but you will have a small amount of the Top and bottom of the original frame cropped.

Be aware The HD setting for the Format is distinct to only the HD channels and the SD setting is distinct to only SD channels.

If you are not sure what the receiver is set too, pull up the Banner Bar and the receiver will display the Frame format the receiver is using.

Now saying all that it is also possible you changed the Frame setting of your TV independent of of your Dish Receiver (Generally your TV's Display mode should be set to wide/16x9/normal) whatever uses the entire display surface of your TV (Don't set it to Stretch or Zoom).

John
 

ianai

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Hampton, VA
Thanks for the replies :)

What do you mean by that? Do I go to check switch and just cycle all of the transponders? Going to check now, hopefully it will be obvious but I'm kind of a newb ;)
 

ianai

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Hampton, VA
Ianai,
Now saying all that it is also possible you changed the Frame setting of your TV independent of of your Dish Receiver (Generally your TV's Display mode should be set to wide/16x9/normal) whatever uses the entire display surface of your TV (Don't set it to Stretch or Zoom).

John

Sorry, this part is more of a difference than an issue. Everything is set properly, quadruple checked. I'm just getting auto-black bars during SD where it used to auto-stretch without having changed anything. It really seems like the signal is including the black bars, not necessarily a bad thing but I didn't get that before.

The real issue though is the quality and it is considerably worse. I'm watching the olympics again and the difference between what I've got on my DVR from yesterday to what's coming across today is significant. Going to test transponder settings, will be back with that info. My 722's currently recording, so I cant' do it but I'll give ther eadings from my 211.

Thanks again :)
 

ianai

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Hampton, VA
Okay, results from 211 in bedroom. I do appear to have better options than what it was set at.

61.5 sat

01) 41
02) 41
03) 43 spotbeam
04) 0
05) 38 spotbeam
06) 0
07) 35 spotbeam
08) 48
09) 41 spotbeam
10) 54
11) 50
12) 0
13) 45 spotbeam
14) 61
15) 66 - spotbeam
16) 32
17) 0
18) 0
19) 36
20) 39
21) 37
22) 43
23) 0
24) 50
25) 48
26) 0
27) 46
28) 0
29) 58
30) 40
31) 45
32) 37

Do I just choose the highest number? Is spotbeam better or worse?

Once again, thanks :)
 

Jonhern

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 23, 2009
511
0
Rhode Island
Okay, results from 211 in bedroom. I do appear to have better options than what it was set at.

61.5 sat

01) 41
02) 41
03) 43 spotbeam
04) 0
05) 38 spotbeam
06) 0
07) 35 spotbeam
08) 48
09) 41 spotbeam
10) 54
11) 50
12) 0
13) 45 spotbeam
14) 61
15) 66 - spotbeam
16) 32
17) 0
18) 0
19) 36
20) 39
21) 37
22) 43
23) 0
24) 50
25) 48
26) 0
27) 46
28) 0
29) 58
30) 40
31) 45
32) 37

Do I just choose the highest number? Is spotbeam better or worse?

Once again, thanks :)

You don't chose transponders, different channels are on different transponders.
 

MikeD-C05

Pub Member / Supporter
Pub Member / Supporter
Nov 25, 2003
26,188
16,123
Nederland , Texas
Those numbers on regular conus beam transponders look a little low to me . Now spotbeams are only important if your locals are coming off of them. In my case the spotbeam 13 is for Houston,Tx locals which I "moved" to get and spotbeam 9 is for where my real home town Beaumont,Tx locals are. But at least 45 - 50 is needed to make sure you don't suffer from rain fade which causes your hd channels to drop out in rain storms. I think your installer got you great signals on 72.7 ,but on 77 sat it is not necessary to get that high since all that is on there is pay per views and music cd /sirius xm radio channels. I think he sacrificed some of your 61.5 signal to get the high numbers on 77. You might need a repoint to peak it for a better signal on 61.5 so you don't see your picture drop out or pixel like you said you are seeing. Compare your transponders to my post above and you can see you are getting some real low numbers .
 

busdriver72

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 13, 2005
107
0
Are you having "pixeling," which is the picture is actually breaking up...looks like it is breaking & falling apart into little pieces? Or is it a grainy picture? The strength on the 61.5 is a little bit low, but not enough to cause pixelization.
If you have a "dual" tuner HD receiver, how is TV1 hooked up to the receiver? If it was connected using the RCA jacks & cable (the yellow, red & white holes) that will cause a loss of clarity. The RCA jacks are not Hi-Def. For the best picture use component cables (the blue, red and green holes) or an HDMI cable. (If using component, you will have to use separate audio cables, too.) Also, TV2 off of a HD dual receiver is not a Hi-Def signal. Only TV1 gets the full HD.

Edit: I just re-read where you said you have a VIP211. That's a single TV tuner.
 

ianai

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Hampton, VA
Are you having "pixeling," which is the picture is actually breaking up...looks like it is breaking & falling apart into little pieces? Or is it a grainy picture? The strength on the 61.5 is a little bit low, but not enough to cause pixelization.
If you have a "dual" tuner HD receiver, how is TV1 hooked up to the receiver? If it was connected using the RCA jacks & cable (the yellow, red & white holes) that will cause a loss of clarity. The RCA jacks are not Hi-Def. For the best picture use component cables (the blue, red and green holes) or an HDMI cable. (If using component, you will have to use separate audio cables, too.) Also, TV2 off of a HD dual receiver is not a Hi-Def signal. Only TV1 gets the full HD.

Edit: I just re-read where you said you have a VIP211. That's a single TV tuner.

@mike Should I request that they come back out to repoint the dish? Funny about the PPV and music having super-strong signals and marginal on the actual content ;)

@ BusDriver - I have a 211 in my bedroom but my primary receiver is a 722. The 722 is hooked up w/ HDMI to a single HD TV, the 211 is using HDMI-DVI. Both looked crystal clear prior to this "upgrade". I'm not sending a signal out to the second TV w/ the 722 as it's SD only :( I can't wait until a dual-hd box comes out :)

I'm not seeing pixelation as you describe. I guess it's grainy, or sloppy or streaky or whatever..I watched some footage from my DVR recorded yesterday and the quality is definitely lower today. I think Figure Skating will be a good test as I have some of that from last night and the lighting is very consistent. If there is any today, I'll be able to really compare the two. It was so overcast today in Vancouver it's tough to make a really good call there.

This reminds me - Would there be any use in removing the splitter-like thing behind the 722. When I check switch it comes up w/ two signals attached to the box, but I've only got one Dish now, and one TV. Is that thing still necessary? Any chance it's diluting my signal or anything?
 

Bobby

Publican
Supporting Founder
Lifetime Supporter
Sep 7, 2003
61,019
13,928
Rohnert Park, CA
The splitter thing on your 722 is called a separator. It feeds your two tuners in the 722 with one coax, leave it alone.
 

ianai

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 19, 2009
53
0
Hampton, VA
The splitter thing on your 722 is called a separator. It feeds your two tuners in the 722 with one coax, leave it alone.

Ahh, right. I'd lose a tuner in the process..gotcha. I thought it was perhaps a remnant from having two dishes on the roof. Nevermind :D
 

MikeD-C05

Pub Member / Supporter
Pub Member / Supporter
Nov 25, 2003
26,188
16,123
Nederland , Texas
IF you are losing picture on your 61.5 HD content , Yes I would see if DISH would come back out and repoint your dish for better signal on 61.5. Having low 30's and 40's on your transponder strength is too low to me. Like I said before ,you need to have at least 45- 50 to maintain good signal lock or you will have terrible rain fade on any thing off of 61.5 sat. You might add the dish home protection plan for 6.00 and it won't cost you but 15.00 for a tech to come out and check your signal strengths on the 61.5 sat. But you will need to keep it for a couple of months before you cancel it or it will cost you a $25.00 cancellation fee.
 

tstolze

Pub Member / Supporter
Jul 23, 2007
354
0
O'fallon, MO
IF you are losing picture on your 61.5 HD content , Yes I would see if DISH would come back out and repoint your dish for better signal on 61.5. Having low 30's and 40's on your transponder strength is too low to me. Like I said before ,you need to have at least 45- 50 to maintain good signal lock or you will have terrible rain fade on any thing off of 61.5 sat. You might add the dish home protection plan for 6.00 and it won't cost you but 15.00 for a tech to come out and check your signal strengths on the 61.5 sat. But you will need to keep it for a couple of months before you cancel it or it will cost you a $25.00 cancellation fee.

Beings they were just out I believe it should have a 90 day warranty, it should cost him nothing if a problem does exist.
 

Jonhern

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 23, 2009
511
0
Rhode Island
IF you are losing picture on your 61.5 HD content , Yes I would see if DISH would come back out and repoint your dish for better signal on 61.5. Having low 30's and 40's on your transponder strength is too low to me. Like I said before ,you need to have at least 45- 50 to maintain good signal lock or you will have terrible rain fade on any thing off of 61.5 sat. You might add the dish home protection plan for 6.00 and it won't cost you but 15.00 for a tech to come out and check your signal strengths on the 61.5 sat. But you will need to keep it for a couple of months before you cancel it or it will cost you a $25.00 cancellation fee.

i had low signals on 61.5 as well, had two tech visits, one screwed it in properly as the original installer did not do it properly, the second guy swapped out the lnb which fixed the problem. You might have a bad one and they might just need to replace it. Should cost you nothing since any work is under warranty for I think 60-90days.
 

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