Antenna and Preamp problems.

Another question I have is where exactly do I install the attenuator? Does it go on the input from the antenna to the preamp (outside), on the output to preamp power box (outside), on the input from the antenna to the power box, or on the out to tv connection?
 
The attenuator goes on the input from the antenna to the pre-amp (outside) for the experiment I described. However, upon further review, if you judge the adequacy of your DTV reception solely on the two 150 mile stations, application of the attenuator probably will just further degrade those signals. However, it may improve others, if they were negatively affected by your change in pre-amps. If the pre-amp is readily accessible, it might be worth a try anyway, since it doesn't cost very much.

My gut feeling is that you don't have enough metal (antenna) pointed at the 150 mile channels, but I'll reserve judgement until after I look into your channel data.
 
Wiggin78 you have a problem!

Despite living in a virtual television “no-man’s land”, you have taken up an objective that is probably affected by the only significant broadcasting transmission within 25 miles of your location. But I digress.

At the link below are the DTV channels within 170 miles of your Zip Code. The two channels you desire to receive (35 and 55) are listed as 166 miles out. That is a real stretch, even for flat terrain and being on a hill. Generally, one would get the best fringe antenna with the best high gain, low noise pre-amp to try to receive these stations. Maybe even horizontally stack a pair of antennas.

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defau...lse&show_low_power=False&action=Show+Stations

Channels 35 and 55 are shown to be on a compass reading of 150 degrees from your Zip Code. None of digital channels in your area are broadcasting at much more than the wattage of a hair dryer and all but one of the analog channels are too low power and/or too far away (+50 miles) and/or significantly off the 150 degree azimuth to affect your reception. However, you have channel 24 in Chico, just 22 miles away and it is just 6 degrees off your azimuth to the Sacramento channels, broadcasting at 5,000 watts. This could be your problem.

What to do? Well first, use the links on the web page below and regenerate the report I provided above using your actual address to get your actual longitude and latitude. At the distances you are dealing with, a little movement may make a significant difference in compass azimuths of the desired channels (35 and 55) and the potentially problem channel 24.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/hdreception/hdtv_ota.html

Then point your antenna directly along the compass azimuth you derive for channels 35 and 55 (my 150 degrees will be close, but you need exact stuff here). While you fine-tune the aim of your antenna, have someone use your Dish 811 to check signal readings. Go to local channels in the 811 menu and select “Add DTV”. Type in 55 and watch the signal strength. Move your antenna’s aim a few degrees left and right. Lock it in where you get the best signal. Check signal for channel 35.

Note, the 811 isn’t the best ATSC receiver, but it is more than adequate now that the software is nearly debugged. Also, any signal in the 70’s is more than sufficient. The 811 will lock anything over 60, but readings in the 60’s usually have frequent dropouts. If you get over 70, call it good. Nothing much happens by increasing signal strength from 75 to 95, except maybe you over-power the signal.

I can’t explain your lost signal problems at night. Usually it is the other way around as there is more signal traffic during the day than at night. TV stations don’t vary their power by time of day like some radio stations do.

After all of the above, if you are still having the loss of signal with your set up, take k4106’s advice and try to tune in Sacramento’s analog channel 40. If it is just snowy, it is just lack of signal power. If it is all garbled and jazzed up, you have some cross channel interference. Probably channel 24. So try to tune in Chico’s analog channel 24. If it is garbled and/or distorted, it is overloading your signal.

Now what? Best bet is to filter out channel 24. While I’m not a big fan of CM JoinTenna’s, it is about the only practical option consumers have. Get one set for channel 24 (Warren Electronics sells them; takes a few weeks).

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/

Install it between the antenna and the pre-amp (i.e., coax from the antenna to the JoinTenna and coax from the JoinTenna to the pre-amp signal in). This filtering will degrade your signal a little, so you will need all the pre-amp gain to try to lock in 35 and 55.

Good luck.
 
Wiggin78 said:
I have a Winegard 9095p UHF antenna on my roof. I was using a cheap Radioshack 10 db preamp and was getting good reception. I decided to try the winegard ap4800 preamp to get stations that are on the fringe of good reception. To my dismay I hooked the ap4800 up today and now I get worse reception than with the little preamp. I tried using a dc block and that didn't work. All the connections are fine. Does anyone have any ideas why this higher powered preamp would perform worse?
I pulled the pre-amp that came with my Winegard because it provided worse reception. The pre-amp did an excellent job bringing in all kinds of nearby unwanted/unrelated signals. I just use an in-line 20 db amp and this boosts my digital signals just fine.
 
Even the best DTV antennas are not going to be able to pull in stations from the distance that has been mentioned. Go to ChannelMasters or Weingard and look at the specs for even the monster yagis. If it is 150 miles he is well out of range, period.

I think he could have a perfected oriented array of four 4228 Channelmasters and still not succeed. Too far, IMO.
 
Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. I tried having someone watch the signal while I adjusted but that didn't help. I tried getting the jointenna to block ch24 and that hasn't helped either. I'm resigned to the fact that I can't pull stations from Sacramento. I still can't even get our locals from Chico with the setup i have. Besides that I can't even get a signal from ABC or PBS if I don't have any type of preamp on the antenna. I find this weird because with lower end antennas I could get those 2 channels fine without a preamp. Does that seem strange to anyone? For being a high end anntenna it seems to be useless without a preamp. I guess I'll just accept that i can only get ABC and PBS in my area with the 28db preamp. Thanks for everyone' :no s help.
 
By July 1st of this year the ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox stations in Sacramento (and in all other top 100 tv markets) will be required to be at full-power. This summer will be the time to try to pull in those signals with your antenna and pre-amp.
 
When testing your "high-end" Winegard antenna w/o a pre-amp, be sure that the pre-amp is completely out of the system. That means the power converter as well as the pre-amp electronics "black box" by the antenna itself. If you aren't trying to get Sacramento, you may not need a pre-amp at all.

Looking at your data, you should be able to receive "real" DTV channels 18 (PBS) & 34 (ABC), w/o a pre-amp when pointing your antenna to 260 degrees magnetic. When pointing at 131 degrees magnetic, you may receive "real" DTV channels 20 (Fox), 36, and 43, but since they are 50 miles away and very, very low power, you will need a pre-amp.

BTW, the two Sacramento stations you were trying for, one is at full power now and the other at 2/3's power. That should be enough for long range reception if it is even feasible. At this point, if you want Sacramento, you would need to be looking at "stacked" antennas and there isn't any guarantee that would work.

http://www.atechfabrication.com/tests/03-03-02_horizontal_vs_vertical_stacking_test.htm
 
Channel 34 and 18 will not come in without a preamp. I have completely taken the preamp out of the line and pointed the antenna at 260 degrees but no signal. I have to have the antenna pointed in that direction with the preamp to get the signal. This seems very strange to me. With towers so close why is it that i can't pick up these signals without using a preamp?
 
did you try to rescan the channels with all the pieces of the preamp out of the system?

I did an install at a house with an old huge antenna that had some sort of preamp system, and the hdtivo we were setting up would not see anything on the antenna then we realized it had some black box up on the roof on the mast. We removed that and still nothing. Then we had the hdtivo rescan the channels and bam, everything was cool. worth a try if you haven't yet....

Jon
 
I second what "j5races" said. Looking at your Zip Code on antennaweb.org, digital channels 18 and 34 shouldn't be a problem with your antenna and no pre-amp, if it is pointed in that direction. Maybe you don't really have "line of sight" at your exact location within the Zip Code.
 
My antenna now receives 18 and 34 without the preamp. The problem was with the two prongs that connect the circuit board to the elements that come from the antenna. I taked with Winegard and they said it is a common problem. I just had to use a pair of pliers and squeeze them together so they make better contact. This helped out a little with the other channels but not significantly. I'm just happy to have those two channels back at full power.
 
If that connectivity problem knocked out low power, close channels, you might give the long range, high power Sacramento channels another try with your pre-amp.
 
This looks like an old thread. I wonder if anyone will get this.
I have a winegard attached to my homemade antenna. Everything was working great. I picked up a bunch of stations, average from 25-50 miles away. One day, I lost all channels? very wierd. So, I am a little savy, I looked at all the connections, ok. so i disconnected the power supply to the winegard, and bam, i got the channels back. BUT now i lost 4 of them, and i didnt do anything, 1 day later..... so, was the original problem the winegard? or is there something else. I dont know how i could measure amplitude on an rf signal? do i need an osciliscope for that? theres power getting to the winegard on the roof. ( thats were the antenna is) . any help would be great. the wife hates it when the tv doesnt work. and i dont wanna fork out to the cable company's!!!
 
I am guessing that your use of the word “Winegard” means that you have a Winegard preamp. You say you depowered it and your stations came back missing a few channels. It certainly sounds like your preamp is failing. You might consider replacing it.
 
i disconnected the power supply to the winegard, and bam, i got the channels back. BUT now i lost 4 of them, and i didnt do anything, 1 day later..... s
You should move your question to the correct forum...Over The Air TV...If you remove the power supply on the pre-amp your not going to get any channels at all.... only one company makes a pre-amp that lets the signal pass without the power injector and thats Televes..If you are saying you powered it back up and the channels came back then it's probably like Bobby said the pre-amp or the power injector is failing...
 
only one company makes a pre-amp that lets the signal pass without the power injector and thats Televes..
I beg to differ. I have used amps that pass the signal (poorly, as the OP stated) without power. But I agree with all: that amp (or it's power supply?) has gone bad. I suspect the amp since power causes total loss of signal.
 
I beg to differ. I have used amps that pass the signal (poorly, as the OP stated) without power. But I agree with all: that amp (or it's power supply?) has gone bad. I suspect the amp since power causes total loss of signal.
Humm..I have a Winegard,Channel Master,RCA,and Televes and without the power injector working the Televes is the only one that lets the signal pass.. What pre-amp do you use that lets the signal pass without the injectors working?
 
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