Anyone use a pair of 1.2m (Alaska/Hawaii) dishes

[JerseyMatt]

..to combat rain fade? I'm getting a little annoyed now because the past few storms have acted like the tall guy sitting in front of you in the movies.. They develop south of me and just kind of fester there - right in the line of sight, and tonight I was stuck without TV for over half an hour (couldn't even get SD).. Its not like the old days where it goes out for a minute or two then its back.. My levels are ok (low to mid 90's, some high 80's, some 100's) now that it's cleared back up but when it was out it was zeroes across the board, maybe a 10 or 15 here and there.

I understand the way it works, that it will require a new SWM16, and I am comfortable installing it myself.. I just want to know what kind of improvement I can expect for my money if I do this. I realize it most likely won't eliminate it completely because its possible for the Ka signal to be completely blocked. But I also understand the SL5 is quite a ways away from ideal, so there should be a noticeable improvement, right? Would it be as noticeable as solid 100's?

Also, I looked on Lyngsat and it says my SD locals (Wichita - KSNW, KWCH, KSCW, and KSAS) are on 119, but the HD locals aren't listed at any of the slots. Are they coming from 119 (and just coded wrong on Lyngsat) or might they be elsewhere? If they're elsewhere, can I skip the 110/119 dish or would I still need the SD feeds for some reason (I don't have any SD boxes)? I really don't care about PBS or any of the spanish crap thats also on 119, and I see there's nothing on 110. I 'm a Center Ice subscriber too if that makes any difference.
Thanks

 

[Jimbo]

..to combat rain fade? I'm getting a little annoyed now because the past few storms have acted like the tall guy sitting in front of you in the movies.. They develop south of me and just kind of fester there - right in the line of sight, and tonight I was stuck without TV for over half an hour (couldn't even get SD).. Its not like the old days where it goes out for a minute or two then its back.. My levels are ok (low to mid 90's, some high 80's, some 100's) now that it's cleared back up but when it was out it was zeroes across the board, maybe a 10 or 15 here and there.

I understand the way it works, that it will require a new SWM16, and I am comfortable installing it myself.. I just want to know what kind of improvement I can expect for my money if I do this. I realize it most likely won't eliminate it completely because its possible for the Ka signal to be completely blocked. But I also understand the SL5 is quite a ways away from ideal, so there should be a noticeable improvement, right? Would it be as noticeable as solid 100's?

Also, I looked on Lyngsat and it says my SD locals (Wichita - KSNW, KWCH, KSCW, and KSAS) are on 119, but the HD locals aren't listed at any of the slots. Are they coming from 119 (and just coded wrong on Lyngsat) or might they be elsewhere? If they're elsewhere, can I skip the 110/119 dish or would I still need the SD feeds for some reason (I don't have any SD boxes)? I really don't care about PBS or any of the spanish crap thats also on 119, and I see there's nothing on 110. I 'm a Center Ice subscriber too if that makes any difference.
Thanks

Jersey,
Your HD local channels should be on Sat 103, Xpndr 18.

Interesting idea, I know others here have done it, don't remember who though.

Any idea what those dishes cost, and why are 2 needed, I thought I remembered seeing a 99, 101, 103 LNB for it.

I wonder if D* would service them ?

 

[mini1]

There is someone on 'the other satellite forum' who is successfully using a 1 meter FTA dish with a modified SWM LNB to receive 3 satellites at once. You may want to check it out.

 

[Mr Tony]

the only local stations that arent in HD are Univision and Azteca. So you wouldnt really need 119 unless you want those
PBS is in HD

 

[JerseyMatt]

Jersey,
Your HD local channels should be on Sat 103, Xpndr 18.

Interesting idea, I know others here have done it, don't remember who though.

Any idea what those dishes cost, and why are 2 needed, I thought I remembered seeing a 99, 101, 103 LNB for it.

I wonder if D* would service them ?

Awesome. Mind if I ask where you found that info?

The dish itself is $159, 99/101/103 LNB is $120, 110/119 LNB is $50. The bigger dishes have a different focal point, so they can't see all five slots simultaneously (FWIU the single dish that can see 5 slots over a range of 20 degrees is a huge compromise at the expense of gain), which is why the second dish would be needed if 110/119 was required. When I got my install I was told I needed a SL5 because my locals are on 119, but if that's just the SD versions (I did have SD boxes initially, but changed them for HD within a month) and there is nothing else there, WGAS? It'll save me $210 and some roof real estate.

As far as them servicing it, I couldn't see why not.. It's their product, being used in the correct manner, just for a different reason than it was originally designed. In AK/HI, you NEED the extra gain of a bigger dish. I don't see anything wrong with using that extra gain in other parts of the country to eliminate rain fade. I've also read here and there that these dishes are being recommended by Directv for commercial installs to increase reliability, so why not use it at home? BUT, I wanted to hear from anyone who might have this setup to see if it is actually making a real improvement in the rain fade situation before I drop hundreds on new equipment.

There is someone on 'the other satellite forum' who is successfully using a 1 meter FTA dish with a modified SWM LNB to receive 3 satellites at once. You may want to check it out.

Are you talking about the doctor? If so, I read that already and it is a 1m dish with the 99/101/103 Alaska/Hawaii LNB, and it was probably because he got the dish for free or had it laying around. All I have laying around is a Dish 1000.2, and that's basically the same as a SL. The 1m dish plus the time and hassle of having to monkey with it to get it to work is probably going to cost more than just buying the real deal 1.2m dish. Plus it wouldn't be an official Directv product so no tech would touch it.

the only local stations that arent in HD are Univision and Azteca. So you wouldnt really need 119 unless you want those PBS is in HD

Yeah like I said, I wouldn't even notice they were gone. Now they wouldn't do something dumb like put Center Ice games on 110 or 119, right? Are those birds even capable of Ka?

 

[Mr Tony]

Now they wouldn't do something dumb like put Center Ice games on 110 or 119, right? Are those birds even capable of Ka?

no. Only 99 & 103 are capable of KA right now

 

[Mr Tony]

Awesome. Mind if I ask where you found that info?

I've posted this chart a few times. Here is the post where one of the copies are
http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-forum/260163-question-about-channel-issue.html#post2579723

 

[Jimbo]

Awesome. Mind if I ask where you found that info?

The dish itself is $159, 99/101/103 LNB is $120, 110/119 LNB is $50. The bigger dishes have a different focal point, so they can't see all five slots simultaneously (FWIU the single dish that can see 5 slots over a range of 20 degrees is a huge compromise at the expense of gain), which is why the second dish would be needed if 110/119 was required. When I got my install I was told I needed a SL5 because my locals are on 119, but if that's just the SD versions (I did have SD boxes initially, but changed them for HD within a month) and there is nothing else there, WGAS? It'll save me $210 and some roof real estate.

As far as them servicing it, I couldn't see why not.. It's their product, being used in the correct manner, just for a different reason than it was originally designed. In AK/HI, you NEED the extra gain of a bigger dish. I don't see anything wrong with using that extra gain in other parts of the country to eliminate rain fade. I've also read here and there that these dishes are being recommended by Directv for commercial installs to increase reliability, so why not use it at home? BUT, I wanted to hear from anyone who might have this setup to see if it is actually making a real improvement in the rain fade situation before I drop hundreds on new equipment.



Are you talking about the doctor? If so, I read that already and it is a 1m dish with the 99/101/103 Alaska/Hawaii LNB, and it was probably because he got the dish for free or had it laying around. All I have laying around is a Dish 1000.2, and that's basically the same as a SL. The 1m dish plus the time and hassle of having to monkey with it to get it to work is probably going to cost more than just buying the real deal 1.2m dish. Plus it wouldn't be an official Directv product so no tech would touch it.



Yeah like I said, I wouldn't even notice they were gone. Now they wouldn't do something dumb like put Center Ice games on 110 or 119, right? Are those birds even capable of Ka?

Sorry Matt,
I just got back inside.
I was gonna tell you that Ice posted the charts awhile back, but I see he's got you covered !

 

[texasbrit]

I posted in the other forum about this. If you want to combat "rain fade" on the SD channels, which are in the Ku band, then the bigger dishes will probably help. But if you are talking about Ka (HD channels) then the extra gain probably won't help you much, probably just give you a few extra seconds at each "edge" of the storm. The dish will give you about 3db gain, the losses in severe storms at Ka can often be 20db or more and sometimes in very extreme cases as high as 50db. People building satellite communications systems have masses of research on this, and models showing what the losses will be in different areas of the world.

 

[mini1]

Are you talking about the doctor? If so, I read that already and it is a 1m dish with the 99/101/103 Alaska/Hawaii LNB, and it was probably because he got the dish for free or had it laying around. All I have laying around is a Dish 1000.2, and that's basically the same as a SL. The 1m dish plus the time and hassle of having to monkey with it to get it to work is probably going to cost more than just buying the real deal 1.2m dish. Plus it wouldn't be an official Directv product so no tech would touch it.

No, that is not it. The guy has a 1 meter FTA dish a SWM LNB. I can't link to it per forum rules, so I would suggest checking google and/or the other major DBS forum.

 

[texasbrit]

jerseymatt - DirecTv would almost certainly not service the dish because no-one who isn't in Alaska or Hawaii has any experience with it, and certainly would not carry any spares.

 

[JerseyMatt]

jerseymatt - DirecTv would almost certainly not service the dish because no-one who isn't in Alaska or Hawaii has any experience with it, and certainly would not carry any spares.

Seeing as it is being used for commercial installs within CONUS, I'd have to say you're wrong. Wouldn't it be as easy as telling them you have that dish, then it's listed on the work order for any service call? I really don't see how if it is an official dish and LNB they could refuse to service it.

 

[texasbrit]

Seeing as it is being used for commercial installs within CONUS, I'd have to say you're wrong. Wouldn't it be as easy as telling them you have that dish, then it's listed on the work order for any service call? I really don't see how if it is an official dish and LNB they could refuse to service it.

No, the groups doing commercial installs are different. I'm not sure that a regular CSR even has the ability to put this special equipment on to a work order.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

I agree with texas. Ur looking at self service.

 

[JerseyMatt]

Meh. Wouldn't be the end of the world, I used to work for a D* installer back in the day, so I'm capable of aiming a dish. But I would like Stonecold's input on this if he stops in. I can't believe that they wouldn't service one of their own dishes.

 

[tvropro]

Good luck trying to stop rain fade totally. Been there done that, wrote the book. I have tried multiple things and yes a larger reflector can help in a moderate rain event it won't stop it completely.

Ku and Ka signals get scattered because of the frequency. Severity is depending on the height of the storm cloud tops. It's not a wet dish that kills it like some think. It's the path loss through those storm clouds.

I run a 90cm on 101 SD only. Ku will hang in there better than ka because of the lower frequency but still goes out. Direct is now also using less error correction. This sends more bits to each channel in the mux.. The result is any anomaly and its gone. If Direct didn't try to jam so many channels into a mux and ran more error correction this would help a lot, but the rubber band has been stretched to the limit and something has to give.

Good Luck trying to solve rain fade it's not going to happen without changing quite a few things like moving their services to C band.

 

[stonecold]

Meh. Wouldn't be the end of the world, I used to work for a D* installer back in the day, so I'm capable of aiming a dish. But I would like Stonecold's input on this if he stops in. I can't believe that they wouldn't service one of their own dishes.

This is one of those hard to say type of deals.

1. DTV will not replace the dish if something happens to it as there only meant for AK/HI installs and some Commercial installs

2. Service, on the issue of service the issue alot more fuzzy, as they can service them the problem is that you will probably go through heck trying to get a tech who knows how to service, them. Basically you need a tech who done commercial installs who had experience with them which trying to get one of those can be darn near impossible even with the csr notating the work order .

3. Is it covered under protection plan service charges - Not sure actually going to go further up the ladder on this one as the policy not real clear on it there nothing to say no but I am sure there something i may be missing.

 

[tvropro]

I would say anything outside what Direct offers for your area you have to go it on your own. You will have to align troubleshoot etc the whole ball of wax. Honestly it ain't hard at all to do your own install & troubleshooting. This is the route I chose also and it does have it's benefits. Tossing up a 1.2 is no biggie even aiming at multiple birds. You have 3 settings you need right, azimuth, elevation and tilt. Then fine dial it in. You will reap some benefits with a larger reflector, this is why commercial installs use them. Stopping rain fade 100% won't happen but you will enjoy shorter outages and full uptime when you neighbor next door will be seeing 771

 

[JerseyMatt]

Ok good to know.. I'd like to know if it would be covered under PP, but I think I'm going to skip this unless I can source it cheap. tvropro like I said I used to work for an installer, so I can definitely handle the install and any adjustments myself, I was just kind of surprised that they would refuse to cover it even though it's their dish.

 

[stonecold]

Pro plan will still cover the recievers just not the dish as the dishes are not used out side of HI or AK unless it custom installs /commerical