Apartment Complex That Forbids Satellite Installation - Interesting Case

I guess my biggest problem is first making certain I can get a clear signal. Our balcony has a shot at the SWish sky, but I don't know how accessible the LOS will actually be. We move in on the 17th, so I'll have to at least wait till we get in there first. If I can sign a two year lease then I'll be much more comfortable with pushing the envelope. :cool:

Bob - thanks for the local support. :)

Do you happen to have a device that can determine my LOS once we actually get there?

Trust me guys, I don't take being taken advantage of lightly and I might be a real small guy, but I don't back down from a fight...especially when someone is parading around a scheme where they pretend they are above the law and it directly involves me. However, I also am a people-pleaser and I don't like to cause problems, nor do I want to be seen as the guy who came in complaining on day one by the rest of my neighbors. The location itself is too perfect for us to screw this thing up from day one.

I want what's right (that's why I came to you guys), but I also am very unfamiliar with eviction laws and and practices to know if there is any protection for the renter should the notice be handed out for a bogus reason. Any advice there?
 
Ok, so I found out (I think, I want some concrete writing from the library or something) that in PA, unless otherwise written in the lease, after the first full term expires, tenants are then month-to-month renters. In this case, I really shouldn't worry about making them mad, and leave the burden of trying to evict me on them, yes?

Like I said, I'm very green on this apartment rental thing, so I'm trying to tread lightly here. I'm going to call to get my hand on the actual lease this week sometime so I can look over it early before the day we move in.
 
No. From what I can gather, the management for this complex and the two others they own are the parent company - or are a sister company under a larger parent - of the Telcom company called ISpeed. They force you to use their Phone, Internet and TV. To me, it sounds like they have an exclusivity agreement with Dish where they provide all of their owned communities with a Dish signal. Each of their three communities are at least 20 minutes apart and are all supplied by ISpeed, so no, they don't have dishes on the premises. They are a "cable company" that provides a Dish signal.





Thanks for your input, Ross. From everything I've heard, the manager is just a witch in general, not that she exactly goes out of her way to make your life miserable. I just don't want to give her a reason to go out of her way, especially when she's been very pleasant to me so far. :D

I've talked to someone who has lived there before and they said they had nothing but a good experience. Prompt service when needed, no major complaints. The only issues I've ever heard from any of their communities is this issue with ISpeed.

As for our choice to put up with them, we are in a suburb of Pittsburgh where we don't get much choice in available, nice renting options. I work next door to the airport and she works an hour or so north of the city. The general location in between the two really limited our choices of properties. Not only this, but if you know Pittsburgh, you know the highways suck. We could have picked a different location that was perfect for what we needed in the TV/net area, but I would have had to battle the awful highways and tunnels right in the city. I'd rather deal with this issue than hours of extra traffic every drive.



Exactly. Everything you said is exactly what I was thinking. I could push the issue and win, but I don't have the money to take it to court if necessary. It's just not worth it, which is why I'm looking for an alternative such as the use of a Slingbox or a legal protection to keep them from evicting me or not renewing my lease when it expires should I, in fact, push the envelope.

As for the lease, we haven't even signed it yet, so that's no issue. However, even still, would I be wrong to assume that an FCC regulation would overrule a lease agreement?

Yes. The FCC rule does supercede the lease terms. However, proving that is another matter.
Because you would be the plaintiff in a court action, you would have the burden of proof.
Now, someone here on another thread of similar issue, mentioned the FCC does have a "fast track" process for these disputes. Perhaps you can search Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Home Page and see if there's anything in there that looks like it may be helpful.
PGH Airport Area huh?....Moon Twp or Robinson Twp?
 
You don't need any money to take the complex to court. Have your Dish installed, they will likely serve you will papers to appear in court. March into the preceding with the FCC OTARD rules when the Judge asks for your argument provide the FCC OTARD rules to the judge.

Within minutes you will have a ruling in your favor, any and all Court costs will be the responsibility of the losing party, CASE CLOSED.

BTW, it does not matter in the least that the complex has the language in your lease regarding the restriction of the antennas, nor does it matter that you signed it. The simple fact is that blanket restrictions of Dish's under 1 meter or any sized OTA antennas are STRICTLY ILLEGAL, and are un-enforceable in court.

John
That kind of advice is not what one should be offering.
You are contradicting a very large law library full of precedent.
What one prepare for in court is that ANYTHING can happen.
A judge is just that, a judge.
Don't tell the OP it doesn't cost money to file a case. That is WRONG....Have a friend here that is a business owner . He filed two civil suits for non payment. It wans't free. Not by any stretch.
The mnost foolish thing anyone can do is repersent themselves in a court of law when the other party has legal representation.
Next, do not state " it doesn't matter"
In this issue the apartment mgmnt may have carefully worded their lease contract in such a manner that it complies with OTARD AND disallows satellite antennas.
In the case of the OP, he stated he has no balcony. So therefore he has no "exclusive space outside his unit to place the antenna. OTARD's regulations cover antennas placed in the perosnal or exclusive space of the tenant.
Also, OTARD's rewgualtions end where the physical building is ocncerned. OTARD does not go to permit the tenant to attach the antenna to the structure of the property. The OP in order to affix the dish must do that.
In conclusion, there are two examples of where the OP's dilemma falls outside the jurisdiction of OTARD.
 
In the case of the OP, he stated he has no balcony. So therefore he has no "exclusive space outside his unit to place the antenna. OTARD's regulations cover antennas placed in the perosnal or exclusive space of the tenant.
Also, OTARD's rewgualtions end where the physical building is ocncerned. OTARD does not go to permit the tenant to attach the antenna to the structure of the property. The OP in order to affix the dish must do that.
In conclusion, there are two examples of where the OP's dilemma falls outside the jurisdiction of OTARD.

If I said that, it was a typo and I must go look to change it. I do, indeed, have a private balcony off of my second level apartment. They claim that they consider those private balconies as "Common Grounds" though, which seems to contradict itself.

So long as I get LOS, I could absolutely install a system on that balcony within the guidelines laid forth by the OTARD. Seeing the actual wording in their lease agreement is going to be another thing, though. Hopefully get my hands on that this week.

Moon. We're not too far from University Blvd and Robert Morris. I can quite literally throw a stone onto the airport property over the fence. haha
 
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check the actual wording of the contract in relation to the balcony. if it says that the balcony is common ground, then you might be screwed. if it doesn't then you're home free.

on the plus side, if the balcony is considered 'common ground' then you can use your neighbors' to store the stuff that might not fit on yours. and also, for overflow when you are entertaining. :)



*dishcomm: you missed the point, it costs the OP nothing if the PM takes him to court. It costs the PM. It would only cost the OP if he would somehow lose and that, to my knowledge, has never happened in these cases.
 
Get lease before move

Get a copy of the lease before you move. There may be other things that will make you NOT like the terms. Also gives you a chance to see what is said exactly. dishcomm brings up and blurryhaze312 is saying something like I've just said. There is one more thing. If the company has an agreement w/ E* as an MDU then you may not be able to get an installer to come on the premises to put in a system. The MDU agreement trumps everything here from what I understand.
 
on the plus side, if the balcony is considered 'common ground' then you can use your neighbors' to store the stuff that might not fit on yours. and also, for overflow when you are entertaining. :)

That's what I said, mockingly to my father. "If balconies are common grounds, I'll see you on yours tonight for dinner." :D

I just don't understand how they can classify the balconies as common areas, though. That doesn't seem right.
 
If I said that, it was a typo and I must go look to change it. I do, indeed, have a private balcony off of my second level apartment. They claim that they consider those private balconies as "Common Grounds" though, which seems to contradict itself.

So long as I get LOS, I could absolutely install a system on that balcony within the guidelines laid forth by the OTARD. Seeing the actual wording in their lease agreement is going to be another thing, though. Hopefully get my hands on that this week.

Moon. We're not too far from University Blvd and Robert Morris. I can quite literally throw a stone onto the airport property over the fence. haha
I know the area quite well. I have worked in PGH and visited many times.
I have statyed at the Red Roof Inn in Robinson TWP and Another property on Thorn Run Rd in Coraopolis...I liked staying outside town to get away from traffic. In fatc later on this summer I may be making a trip to PGH to catch the Mets when they play the Pirates. I have heard PNC Park is one fine ballyard.
Anyway, with the private balcony, according to OTARD you are in the clear. Your apartment mgr can whine all she likes, but she cannot compel you to remove the antenna provided you meet ALL of the OTARD rules.
They can claim whatever they want. Unless those balconies are for the use of all other tenants, the mgr does not have a leg to stand on. She's grounded.
 
That's what I said, mockingly to my father. "If balconies are common grounds, I'll see you on yours tonight for dinner." :D

I just don't understand how they can classify the balconies as common areas, though. That doesn't seem right.

It isn't .The apartment mgmnt is trying to close a loohole that allow satellite antennas.
 
If I can find my fold up antenna mount and spare dish i can come by and test. if it works you can get a bucket mount.

I have some extra receivers here, 522 perhaps 625 and when i cancel a couple 722s.

is it safe to assume that owned equiptement eliminates the contract these days? i havent been a dealer for a long time and dont follow such issues closely.

I MIGHT have a bucket mount too. not quite sure.

lots of this in my shed i am cleaning out i was making great progress till i got sick with a sinus infection.

i just cant be around tobaco smoke not only do i hate the odor it makes my sinus problem instantly worse.

glad to help out. or we can test your location and you can get a system from the dish store.

heck years ago i helped a local poster with his D system. no longer a dealer i still enjoy this, i service machines all around the tri state area, and do nearly all the moon schools, all around your new location.

if you come to see the pirates play expect them to lose, the team has the lowest payroll in baseball and the owners are getyting what they pay for:(
 
Hello everyone.

I just had a not-so-lovely discussion with my soon-to-be property manager over the phone and one of her office lackeys. I first called and politely inquired about any restrictions for installing satellites (knowing full well what she'd say) and the office assistant sternly informed me that I had no choice but take what they provided. She brushed off my sob story of being a current Dish subscriber and said she was sorry but that I had no choice. I then, still politely, asked her if the management was aware of the FCC regulation prohibiting them from not permitting my installation. She hung up.

I called back and got the property manager (who must have been listening in the whole time) and said she was fully aware of the law and that it didn't matter; they were a special case and the regulation didn't apply to them and that it was written into their lease that you couldn't install anything. I calmly asked her to clarify and she said that since they were a private property, that they were within their rights to deny your installation. I asked if that even included in my exclusive use area on the back patio and she said it did include that area as they consider the private patios attached to their units as common areas. At least there's no conflicting terms there. :rolleyes:

OTARD applies to EVERYONE who has access to an area which is for their use only and can place an antenna into that area without infringing on the ability of someone else to use.

It does NOT matter what the lease says.

The FCC is your friend and will intervene on your behalf, but you must do some legwork and open a case with them.

Start with this: Installing Consumer-Owned Antennas and Satellite Dishes, print it and then get a copy of your lease.

Then document your conversations, write out your notes - bullet point style, and call the FCC at the FCC’s Consumer Center 888-CALL-FCC (1-888-225-5322). Be composed and take your time answering their questions.

If you have the time and can put together a well written summary, including a transcription of your conversation with the manager, along with a copy of the lease with the restriction highlighted, sent it all to:

Federal Communications Commission
Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau
Consumer Inquiries and Complaints Division
445 12th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20554

Be prepared for a wait if you write. They are pretty quick to respond but with all the threats being sent via US Mail, letters can be delayed by up to 30 days as they are sniffed for Anthrax and other substances. Calling is always the quickest and then you can fax any documentation they might require.

They WILL act in your behalf.

Per OTARD, no condo association, rental property owner or manager, or landlord can prohibit any OTA antenna which falls under the classification of, and within the guidelines of, OTARD.

This is pretty much any RECEIVING antenna, whether for OTA TELEVISION, SATELLITE, SHORT WAVE, FM, SATELLITE, that protrudes less than TWELVE FEET above the surface on which it is place and meets all of the other requirements stated in the OTARD regulations. With the exception of SATELLITE INTERNET, OTARD does NOT cover transmitting antennas.

There can be NO ADVANCE NOTICE required; no PERMIT, no design submissions, no fees, no inspections, NOTHING, so long as it meets OTARD specifications.

Where homeowners associations have fought back against the Commission, they have lost, BIG TIME, with the FCC taking them to court, not the resident. Go to the OTARD website and search on VERNON HILLS ILLINOIS. A wealthy condo association got fined and had their hands slapped big time when they refused to obey a Commission ruling. When the Commission kept ruling in the home owner's favor, the homeowner's association took the homeowner and the Commission to court and lost - being fined for disobeying the Commission's initial ruling. It takes a bit of time to search and read the OTARD rulings, but it is absolutely worth while for anyone who has a problem with OTARD uninformed individuals.

Remember, the OTARD rules were made for those of us who want DISH and television reception where we are otherwise restricted and fall into the OTARD acceptable use regulations.

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO OVERRULE THOSE RESTRICTIONS SO LONG AS THE PLACE YOU WANT TO PLACE THE DISH OR ANTENNA IS UNDER YOUR EXCLUSIVE CONTROL - IE: NOT ACCESSIBLE TO ANYONE EXCEPT YOU, AND YOU FOLLOW THE OTARD RULES.

You CANNOT be evicted. You cannot have your lease renewal denied [Yes, the Commission has intervened in those situations as well.]

If you truly like the apartment and want a satellite dish, call the FCC and let them do the fighting for you. They will, and if you provide the necessary documentation, they will win.
 
All im going to say is this....

Your 100% correct on this matter and the apartment complex is dead wrong. Unless your installing in a common area, there is no a thing they can do prevent you from installing your own Dish.

But why even fight these a**holes?

Seriously, my girlfriend moved into an apartment 3 years ago and when we went to sign the lease the first thing I told the apartment manager was that we where installing a Dish.

They tried to give me crap on getting seperate insurance, Etc....

I told them if im not allowed to install a Dish im not moving in, and would find somewhere else that is Dish friendly and all of a sudden this was no longer an issue.

Its one thing to fight them after your already moved in, but if they are giving you crap and your not even moved in the place yet, I would start looking for another place and when the reality hits in with the property manager that they are going to have a vacant unit then they will give.

Every year they try to raise the rent at my Girlfriends apartment, and every year I threatened to move out citing the fact that I always pay ontime and a week early. Everytime we go through this, I win and a matter of fact last year when they pulled this crap I got them to give me $150 off my rent which is what I paid as a deposit on another apartment.

They need your business, as there is alot of empty units everywhere due to the housing market.

The other thing is that you might want to send me a PM with your address and I'll see if the retailer they want to force you to go with doesn't have the address in DISH Networks system as being exclusive to them, which would prevent you from activating or moving an existing account to that address.
 
chicagonettech, your post is very detailed and very good with a couple of exceptions. The first:
This is pretty much any RECEIVING antenna, whether for OTA TELEVISION, SATELLITE, SHORT WAVE, FM, SATELLITE, that protrudes less than TWELVE FEET above the surface on which it is place and meets all of the other requirements stated in the OTARD regulations. With the exception of SATELLITE INTERNET, OTARD does NOT cover transmitting antennas.
OTARD does not cover short wave and am/fm antennas. Here's the excerpt from OTARD:
Q: What are "fixed wireless signals"?
A: "Fixed wireless signals" are any commercial non-broadcast communications signals transmitted via wireless technology to and/or from a fixed customer location. Examples include wireless signals used to provide telephone service or high-speed Internet access to a fixed location. This definition does not include, among other things, AM/FM radio, amateur ("HAM") radio (but see 47 C.F.R. §97.15), Citizens Band ("CB") radio, and Digital Audio Radio Services ("DARS") signals.
In addition, masts CAN be greater than 12 feet in height. If they exceed 12 feet, they MAY need, for example, a building permit. Again, here's the OTARD excerpt:
In addition, antennas covered by the rule may be mounted on "masts" to reach the height needed to receive or transmit an acceptable quality signal (e.g. maintain line-of-sight contact with the transmitter or view the satellite). Masts higher than 12 feet above the roofline may be subject to local permitting requirements for safety purposes. Further, masts that extend beyond an exclusive use area may not be covered by this rule.
Just thought I'd clarify a bit.
 

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