I'm curious to find out with everyone's experience which dish receives the strongest signals and least rain fade. The dishes I'm curious to compare are the Dish 500, 500/1000 Plus dish, SuperDish with 118.7 repoint kit, 1000.2 and 1000.4.
Best dish types?
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If your primary criteria is a one dish solution, I don't have measurements that quantify which of your choices would be the best. It does depend on the birds you want, but bigger is usually better.
I had problems with 129 and all birds with rain fade, even though 129 was on a dedicated Dish 500 and both dishes were peaked for maximum signal. So I picked up several Winegard DS-2077 76 cm dishes. While I was doing the swap, we were hit by a downpour. I cabled up a Dish 500 pointed at 129 to one 211 receiver and the Winegard (also at 129) to another 211. The Dish 500 was wiped out, but the Winegard was still showing as much signal as the Dish 500 was when the skies were clear. I haven't had a single rain fade since switching over.
I had problems with 129 and all birds with rain fade, even though 129 was on a dedicated Dish 500 and both dishes were peaked for maximum signal. So I picked up several Winegard DS-2077 76 cm dishes. While I was doing the swap, we were hit by a downpour. I cabled up a Dish 500 pointed at 129 to one 211 receiver and the Winegard (also at 129) to another 211. The Dish 500 was wiped out, but the Winegard was still showing as much signal as the Dish 500 was when the skies were clear. I haven't had a single rain fade since switching over.
Well to answer this we need to know where you are, and what programs you are getting.
Dish500/1000 plus is only used when international channels are needed. The only difference between the two is that the additional LNB is added for 129 to get HD.
Superdish with the 118.7 again is only used for international programs.
1000.2 is used for HD programs or in areas where local channels are on the 129.
1000.4 is for eastern arc MPEG4 only.
If you want the strongest signals in just about any area using Dish dishes, and you are looking to get international channels and HD. I would get the Superdish with the 118.7 repoint and a Superdish modified to hold a DP dual for 61.5 sending all 4 signals into a DPP44 switch. But you would have to know a guy that can mod the superdish to hold a single LNB.
HMMMM I wonder who would know how to do that.....
Ok, I guess I need to be more clear. I am just curious to find out what other techs and do-it-yourselfers have found to work best as far a signal strength and rain fade goes. I installed a 500 plus a few weeks ago and have the best signals I've ever had. Before the plus dish, I had a superdish with the 500 plus repoint on it. I didn't have the strongest signal, but I tried to jury-rig a 1 5/8" pole that I was expecting to install the plus dish on. Before the 118.7 satellite, I had a dish 500 for several years with great signal, now my signal is even better.
For those with experience with other types of dishes, such as the 1000.2 and 1000.4, which do you believe catches the strongest signal and experiences the least rain fade? I used to install for dish before the 1000.4 came out, so I haven't had the experience with that and I never worked in a dish 1000.2 market. I mainly used to deal with the 500's and 61.5 wing dish for HD. I mainly took down superdishes, unless I was placing a repoint kit on one and really didn't install that many 500 plus dishes and when I did, that was usually their only programming (all that extra equipment for a few channels).
Hopefully this best clarifies what I'm trying to ask. I just want to find out what others have experienced with the variety of DISH dishes.
For those with experience with other types of dishes, such as the 1000.2 and 1000.4, which do you believe catches the strongest signal and experiences the least rain fade? I used to install for dish before the 1000.4 came out, so I haven't had the experience with that and I never worked in a dish 1000.2 market. I mainly used to deal with the 500's and 61.5 wing dish for HD. I mainly took down superdishes, unless I was placing a repoint kit on one and really didn't install that many 500 plus dishes and when I did, that was usually their only programming (all that extra equipment for a few channels).
Hopefully this best clarifies what I'm trying to ask. I just want to find out what others have experienced with the variety of DISH dishes.
Well for just getting 110 and 119 the 500, 1000.2, 500/1000+, and superdish with repoint were all about the same within a few points. For getting the best signal on 129 a dedicated dish such as a 500 was better than using a 1000.2. I have superdish's that are modified to just point at on location with a dp dual I get screeming signals on 129 and 61.5 with that.
I have only done one 1000.4 and that is pointed at the 61.5, 72.7, and 77 locations. It did not seem to have as good a signal on the 61.5 as a dedicated dish500 got.
If you were not getting good signals on a superdish with the repoint kit, I would say it had more to do with install than the dish. It is a bit larger than a 500/1000+ so it should have had as good a signal if not a bit better.
Now I am in mid Michigan. In other areas the numbers will be different. It all depends on where you are in the footprint of the satellite on what kind of numbers you are going to see. So it really depends on where you are and what you are trying to see.
I have only done one 1000.4 and that is pointed at the 61.5, 72.7, and 77 locations. It did not seem to have as good a signal on the 61.5 as a dedicated dish500 got.
If you were not getting good signals on a superdish with the repoint kit, I would say it had more to do with install than the dish. It is a bit larger than a 500/1000+ so it should have had as good a signal if not a bit better.
Now I am in mid Michigan. In other areas the numbers will be different. It all depends on where you are in the footprint of the satellite on what kind of numbers you are going to see. So it really depends on where you are and what you are trying to see.
The 500+/1000+ beats all the multi-sat dishes. (I have tried them all.) As for a single satellite dish the DS-2077 is the best. I found it tended to not be as sturdy as the 24" DS-2061. The 2061 is close to the 2077 in signal stength so I stuck with it for 61.5.
See EKB: Dish Types. Nothing there to compare reception though generally bigger is better if not easier.
Single LNB dishes work better because multi-sat dishes are more prone to interference from picking up some signal from adjacent satellites. This increases the noise factor and thus subsequent errors in the data transmission. So signal to noise ratios tend to be a little lower. Since the algorythm that determines signal strength on a Dish receiver includes S/N ratios in the calculation, the signal "strength" can be lower as a result.
To understand this, imagine the dish is a mirror and the satellites are flashlights. The majority of light will be concentrated to the correct LNB, but some of it is going to hit other LNBs, lowering their S/N ratios. A single LNB dish collects a lot less "light" from the unwanted satellites in this example. A larger dish can overcome this but I believe the current line of multisat dishes are a compromise between engineering requirements and aesthetic concerns. Obviously a 6 foot multisat would get great S/N, but not many would want to have one at their home. The original 1000 dish is a good example of that. They tried to keep it small but it proved too small in the field so they came out with the larger 1000.2.
To understand this, imagine the dish is a mirror and the satellites are flashlights. The majority of light will be concentrated to the correct LNB, but some of it is going to hit other LNBs, lowering their S/N ratios. A single LNB dish collects a lot less "light" from the unwanted satellites in this example. A larger dish can overcome this but I believe the current line of multisat dishes are a compromise between engineering requirements and aesthetic concerns. Obviously a 6 foot multisat would get great S/N, but not many would want to have one at their home. The original 1000 dish is a good example of that. They tried to keep it small but it proved too small in the field so they came out with the larger 1000.2.
What vegas said.
A Dish300 pointed at 119 or 110 gets a stronger signal with less rain fade than a Dish500 pointed at 110 and 119.
A Dish500 with a single LNB (ie a bigger version of the Dish300) will be better due to the higher gain of the antenna.
I'm not sure if the larger dishes designed for 3+ satellites have a single focal point. If they do they would have more gain and this better signal quality.
Any time you look at more than one satellite you loose signal. More satellites, more loss (compared to a dedicated, single satellite antenna).
That was one of the nice things with C band dishes. You moved the dish to look at each satellite directly instead of trying to receive from 2 satellites at once.
A Dish300 pointed at 119 or 110 gets a stronger signal with less rain fade than a Dish500 pointed at 110 and 119.
A Dish500 with a single LNB (ie a bigger version of the Dish300) will be better due to the higher gain of the antenna.
I'm not sure if the larger dishes designed for 3+ satellites have a single focal point. If they do they would have more gain and this better signal quality.
Any time you look at more than one satellite you loose signal. More satellites, more loss (compared to a dedicated, single satellite antenna).
That was one of the nice things with C band dishes. You moved the dish to look at each satellite directly instead of trying to receive from 2 satellites at once.
I've been going through the same process. The goal is to minimize rain-fade. I'm in northern California (zip 95949). Satellites of interest are 110, 119, 129. Currently have a Dish 1000 (non plus). Clear day signals on 129 range from a high of 47 on transponder 31 to several transponders at 28 including #19. Signal strengths on 119 are higher: mid 30s to mid 40s (excluding spot beams). Signal strengths on 110 are much higher: high 50s to low 70s. This is with a ViP622 with the "new" meter calibration.
I just helped a friend peak his 1000.2 with a ViP722 and didn't see much difference in readings.
Has this been verified? It seems to me that a dish designed to target multiple satellites would have similar signal strengths regardless of the LNB positions. I theorize that each LNB is using a portion of the dish surface, but a similar amount of surface for the different locations. Wouldn't that make signal strength mostly a function of dish height?
I'd agree that a Dish 500 would produce more signal than a Dish 300 since the 500 is taller.
I would agree with this statement. I'm assuming a dish designed to target a single satellite has a single focal point (parabolic in both H and V dimensions) but a dish designed to target multiple satellites is parabolic in V but more circular in H so there will be multiple focal points for each satellite.
As an experiment, I covered a portion of the dish surface with my hand. On 129, my hand had a significant effect on signal toward one side of the dish but very little on the other. The same was true for 110 but the sides reversed (obviously). On 119, the center was most sensitive with little effect at either edge.
I'm going with the "bigger is better" philosophy with a modification: Ignore the dish's width and consider only the height. This should allow you to compare dishes designed for single and multiple satellite reception.
So a Dish 1000.2 (20.7" tall) should be slightly better than a Dish 1000 (18"tall) and a Dish 1000 Plus (28.3" tall) should be the best of the three.
Does any of this make sense or am I all wet?
