buried cable (1 Viewer)

Les Ellesson

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Aug 30, 2011
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I need to install approx 320 lf of buried cable so I can receive HD signals (apparently 2 satellites) through Dish network. dish does not supply anything but RG6 but that will not work. Have heard that RG11 may work but on another forum, they recommended an FSJ4-75A Andrew Heliax. I would need two "conductors" first question is "is that what I need?" second is does that come with two conductors or do I need to buy 640 lf? and third, what about the connector from the cable to the existing "male" end at the junction box? Help please
 

TheKrell

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Why only "two conductors"? A coaxial cable has a center conductor and an outer shield. I would expect you to need 3 cables in order to feed 3 receivers or a DPP44 switch.
 

stardust3

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My opinion is that rg-11/solid copper/flooded cable will work without any distance issues. Dish specs say 1 thing, but what works is another. It will be expensive to purchase that kind of wire, but it will be a 1 time thing if done right. You should contact a local retailer to help you with a new account on the kind of setup your trying to do. The 800 # will be a dead end road full of headaches from the csr to the installer & they will both tell you it won't work. As far as rg-11 connectors you or the retailer may have to purchase the tool to install them & yes it will connect to a ground block, lnb or f-81 barrel.
 

Les Ellesson

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Aug 30, 2011
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Stillwater Minnesota
Please forgive my lack of knowledge on this subject. Just to be clear. Should I bury 2 RG-11 cables? and specifically, what is the exact type (specifications) of RG-11 cable I should get and does anyone know any contacts in the Minneapolis/St. Paul Minn area that could assist?
 

upsss

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You can get the cable, connectors and crimping tool on eBay. I would also compare prices locally.
 

primestar31

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rexlan

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Heliax will cost a fortune and the connectors are $25++ each.

RG-6 has ~ 2 times the loss as RG-11. But you signal loss on that length of run will be about 50% ... marginal. There are multiple grages of coax as well and it isn't cheap.

If you're going to bury the cable then it needs to be rated for underground service. The local cable company will be a good source to possibly purchase it from.

Personally, I'd look for another way or do without HD ... you are setting yourself up for an expensive marginal system.

I need to install approx 320 lf of buried cable so I can receive HD signals (apparently 2 satellites) through Dish network. dish does not supply anything but RG6 but that will not work. Have heard that RG11 may work but on another forum, they recommended an FSJ4-75A Andrew Heliax. I would need two "conductors" first question is "is that what I need?" second is does that come with two conductors or do I need to buy 640 lf? and third, what about the connector from the cable to the existing "male" end at the junction box? Help please
 

Stargazer

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That does not sound like too bad of a price. I wonder if anybody has tried running an electric line and RG-6 line to the dish and have a small shed/building with the receivers there as you could amplify the tv out to the tv's at the house along with sending the UHF remote commands through the coax on really long wire runs. Might not save anything going this route though.
 

Bigglesworth

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So, I've included a handy dandy chart but the main problem you will run into is a possible loss across the higher end of the freq range. The loss at lower frequencies is minimal compared to what you lose at the higher freq, even on RG11. Keep in mind you will need to see the loss in the 950-2250mhz range. 320ft should not be a problem as long as you have a powered switch at the house where the cable comes out of the ground, not fullproof, but tends to help. This would also require 3x the amount of cable from dish to home if trying to hit 3 orbitals. Make sure after installing you have at least something under -50db at the receiver or I can guarantee constant signal loss and issues, make sure to check all transponders on each orbital as well. If the RG11 will not work solely by itself you could also consider L-band amplifiers which would cost a considerable amount more but would handle the job a lot better, would also require the correct equipment to get the proper gain in one that is not adjustable.

Coax Cable Signal (Attenuation) Loss per 100ft
RG-11
1MHz0.2dB
10MHz
0.4dB
50MHz1.0dB
100MHz1.6dB
200MHz2.3dB
400MHz3.5dB
700MHz4.7dB
900MHz5.4dB
1000MHZ5.6dB

Once you get to the 2k range you are in 8-10db loss per 100ft. Considering straight out of most commonly used Dish Network LNB's you are starting with a -25 to -30db you only have about 20db to lose before hitting some form of power or amplification.
 
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Tyralak

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So, I've included a handy dandy chart but the main problem you will run into is a possible loss across the higher end of the freq range. The loss at lower frequencies is minimal compared to what you lose at the higher freq, even on RG11. Keep in mind you will need to see the loss in the 950-2250mhz range. 320ft should not be a problem as long as you have a powered switch at the house where the cable comes out of the ground, not fullproof, but tends to help. This would also require 3x the amount of cable from dish to home if trying to hit 3 orbitals. Make sure after installing you have at least something under -50db at the receiver or I can guarantee constant signal loss and issues, make sure to check all transponders on each orbital as well. If the RG11 will not work solely by itself you could also consider L-band amplifiers which would cost a considerable amount more but would handle the job a lot better, would also require the correct equipment to get the proper gain in one that is not adjustable.

Coax Cable Signal (Attenuation) Loss per 100ft
RG-11
1MHz0.2dB
10MHz
0.4dB
50MHz1.0dB
100MHz1.6dB
200MHz2.3dB
400MHz3.5dB
700MHz4.7dB
900MHz5.4dB
1000MHZ5.6dB

Once you get to the 2k range you are in 8-10db loss per 100ft. Considering straight out of most commonly used Dish Network LNB's you are starting with a -25 to -30db you only have about 20db to lose before hitting some form of power or amplification.

Exactly. RG11 would be the way to go with that distance. 3 lines. I would also recommend using an LA143 amp in a small junction box at the dish. By the time it gets to the house, your signal should be great.



They run about $68 from the manufacturer. Sonora - Products
You might be able to find them cheaper somewhere. Also, when dealing with this kind of distance and amplification, I would *HIGHLY* recommend finding someone with a Super Sat Buddy so you can read the Db levels. Make friends with a local installer, or hire one to help you. It's not a hard job with the proper tools, but without them it's a pain in the ass.
 

Claude Greiner

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Get Dishpro single LNB's and run a wire for each satellite and locate the switch (Dp44) within 100 feet of the receivers.

Before you go to the RG11, try using RG6 Quad Shield cable with a 100% Copper Center conductor.

RG11 is a recommended solution, but the cost of the cable is high and then plan on spending $5 per connectior plus $50 for the tool to crimp the connector.

Always run the cable on the ground before burrying it to make sure everything works.
 

Tyralak

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Get Dishpro single LNB's and run a wire for each satellite and locate the switch (Dp44) within 100 feet of the receivers.

Before you go to the RG11, try using RG6 Quad Shield cable with a 100% Copper Center conductor.

RG11 is a recommended solution, but the cost of the cable is high and then plan on spending $5 per connectior plus $50 for the tool to crimp the connector.

Always run the cable on the ground before burrying it to make sure everything works.

RG6 can work. Hell, I've done it a few times at those distances, but it requires putting the correct amplifiers in the right places. I would still put the LA143 in a box at the dish, then the 3 lines can be run to a 44 switch wherever your junction is for the cables. Still, with this kind of installation you simply can't guess at the signal levels. It's very important that your signals be at the proper level coming into the switch, and to the receiver. Anything more than -25Db coming into the switch can damage it. Less than -45 Db going in, and you're going to have signal problems at the receiver if they're not pretty close to the switch.
 

upsss

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@ 2GHz, 200' of RG6 which is the maximum length recommended by Dish has the same losses as 400' of RG11. So, if everything is done just right, you should not have any problems with 320' of RG11 and you don't need any amplifiers or switches. In any case, have it done by professional people!
 

Tyralak

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@ 2GHz, 200' of RG6 which is the maximum length recommended by Dish has the same losses as 400' of RG11. So, if everything is done just right, you should not have any problems with 320' of RG11 and you don't need any amplifiers or switches. In any case, have it done by professional people!

Not really. Normal signal at the dish is usually between -29 and -32. Let's say, best case -29. At 2Ghz, losing 10Db every 100 feet, at 300 ft you would be at about -59 under perfect conditions, and with a direct run to the receiver. No ground blocks, diplexers, barrels, etc. -59 is uselessly low signal. If your receiver works at all, it won't work well.
 

upsss

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Not really. Normal signal at the dish is usually between -29 and -32. Let's say, best case -29. At 2Ghz, losing 10Db every 100 feet, at 300 ft you would be at about -59 under perfect conditions, and with a direct run to the receiver. No ground blocks, diplexers, barrels, etc. -59 is uselessly low signal. If your receiver works at all, it won't work well.
Not really what??? What are you disputing?
 

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