CBS lacking HD for NFL
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Fox is broadcasting 6 games in HD, and they have all the BCS games this week in HD.I agree i sit down to watch the better of the 2 games in my market cincy vs pitts & i am like shocked to se it's in SD. Kinda funny how spoiled we get with the HD it like i don't even enjoy watching it in SD,also has anyone noticed nbc's sunday night football in hd is no where as crisp as espn on monday's. But again you get spoiled by perfection & you expect it on all the games oh well go bears
CBS has been like that for years. Wait till the NCAA March Madness Basketball games start, over the first 2 weekends less than half the games are in HD.
CBS has said that this year they felt it was more important to get the NFL Today set upgraded to HD then add more HD games.
CBS has the best quality HDTV but you are right about their lack of more than 3 HDTV NFL games each week. They need to buy more equipment. I tend to watch the HDTV games only each week. If CBS did this with their Prime Time Schedule their ratings would suffer. Wise up CBS.
From what I read in the past CBS started out by upgrading to true HD, which costs a lot more. Fox found some cheaper up-rezzing alternative and was able to implement it in more games. When I watch, I tend to watch only HD games, and I notice CBS's quality blows Fox away. The NFL has mandated ALL broadcasts to be HD by '09, hopefully CBS will be early.
Fox originally used what they called "Fox Widescreen" which was nothing more then 480p at 16x9. But for the past couple of years Fox has been using 720p (which is the same as ABC and ESPN), which according to the rules can be called HD, for their HD standard. I think there are a couple of times where Fox needs to do a game in 480p when they have too many games to cover and not enough HD trucks available.
CBS and NBC both use 1080i as their standard, but IMHO NBC's PQ on their NFL games stinks (looking at both the local ATSC OTA feed and D*'s WNBC feed).
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Rad,
What is this about, hinting that 720p is not "really" HD. 720p in many instances CAN LOOK BETTER than 1080i, even though there are not as many pixels in 720p. The actual motion tracking is better resolved under 720p than it is in 1080i.
In fast moving action, you can see all kinds of artifacting because 1080 is interlaced instead of using a progressive scan.
Before you suggest that 1080p is just around the corner, 1080p is definiately NOT around the corner. The only 1080p content you will see for years to come is either Blu-Ray or DVD HD disc's. Bottomline the actual bandwidth needed for true 1080p is almost double of the current 19 Millionbits per second maximum in OTA ATSC. Let's not even mention the fact that both DBS providers do NOT provide even a full 1920x1080 1080 Interlaced signal. Many Cable companies do provide true 1920x1080 1080i channels, but even they are going to balk at throwing anymore bandwidth at channels, besides there are NO content owners that are willing to provide 1080p.
John
I saw a funny thing on NBC tonight. I was watching the Packers - Bears game, in HD. Then a commercial came on showing the "NFL Play of the Day." It was sponsored by Samsung HDTVs. It was in SD.
Fox has a different system for transmitting HD from the network to the affiliates. I don't remember all of the numbers exactly but:
Bandwith of transmissions:
Sattellite transponders are about 45mbs
ATSC - digital television broadcast is 19mbs.
CBS transmits HD at close to 45mbs from the network to the stations. The station then encodes the signal for ATSC to broadcast and broadcasts it. CBS can only get one game per satellite transponder. If you watch games on a station that does not multicast, they broadcast at very high bitrates and it looks very good.
Fox didn't do HD for several years after CBS. The put in a system where the station receives an ATSC signal from the network and broadcasts it. They send 14-15mbs for each game from the network. Fox can get up to three games on one satellite transponder. With the reduced bitrate, you do see more motion artifacts on Fox than CBS.
I haven't kept track of things for a couple of years, but I think the problem with CBS is still in the transmission of multiple HD programs from the network at the same time. They can probably find enough HD trucks to actually tape the game in HD even if it is not broadcast in HD. It wouldn't surprise me if they are using HD trucks for some games not broadcast in HD.
Bandwith of transmissions:
Sattellite transponders are about 45mbs
ATSC - digital television broadcast is 19mbs.
CBS transmits HD at close to 45mbs from the network to the stations. The station then encodes the signal for ATSC to broadcast and broadcasts it. CBS can only get one game per satellite transponder. If you watch games on a station that does not multicast, they broadcast at very high bitrates and it looks very good.
Fox didn't do HD for several years after CBS. The put in a system where the station receives an ATSC signal from the network and broadcasts it. They send 14-15mbs for each game from the network. Fox can get up to three games on one satellite transponder. With the reduced bitrate, you do see more motion artifacts on Fox than CBS.
I haven't kept track of things for a couple of years, but I think the problem with CBS is still in the transmission of multiple HD programs from the network at the same time. They can probably find enough HD trucks to actually tape the game in HD even if it is not broadcast in HD. It wouldn't surprise me if they are using HD trucks for some games not broadcast in HD.
My opinions and facts after lots of research. NFLST/SF is now over for the season. CBS did 3 games in HD each week all season. FOX did 6 in HD every week. All NBC, NFL Network and playoff games are in HD.
NBC uses the most compression (worst video quality). 720P is generally better for fast movement, 1080i is generally better for movies and resolution. 1080P native broadcasts are several years away. Most new tv's will upconvert to 1080P but it's not the same (or as good).
I record the local games using Dish HD-DVR, all the other HD games Directv Superfan and rest of SD games D* shorts later tonight on HR10 & 20. I also record all the college bowl games. By tomorrow night all 4 dvr's will be stuffed full. Yes I am a football fanatic. 90 min to HNY!
NBC uses the most compression (worst video quality). 720P is generally better for fast movement, 1080i is generally better for movies and resolution. 1080P native broadcasts are several years away. Most new tv's will upconvert to 1080P but it's not the same (or as good).
I record the local games using Dish HD-DVR, all the other HD games Directv Superfan and rest of SD games D* shorts later tonight on HR10 & 20. I also record all the college bowl games. By tomorrow night all 4 dvr's will be stuffed full. Yes I am a football fanatic. 90 min to HNY!
I've seen some people 'claim' that only 1080i is HD, it has to be the highest resolution to get the best picture. Even our local ABC station broadcasts in 1080i, not 720p, at the direction of the home office, they say 1080i is the best.
At some point in the future, when bandwidth is unlimited and picture quality is king, I'd like to see all HD in 1920x1080p or better. But for now 1280x720p with good bandwidth is very good. Great for smooth motion.
And definitely better than the 1280x1080i crap that is being foisted upon us.
The HDTV proponents that were fighting for the 1920x1080i @ 50+ Mbps and 1280x720p @ 40+ Mbps back in the 1990s, must be appalled at seeing "HD" being delivered at 1280x1080i @ 9Mbps.
And definitely better than the 1280x1080i crap that is being foisted upon us.
The HDTV proponents that were fighting for the 1920x1080i @ 50+ Mbps and 1280x720p @ 40+ Mbps back in the 1990s, must be appalled at seeing "HD" being delivered at 1280x1080i @ 9Mbps.
I remember awhile ago, i think it was at the beginning of the preseason that Scott or someone posted an interview with one of the main guys at CBS. He said that they could only do a couple games a week in HD and that every year they were going to try and add one or two more games. So hopefully next year instead of having 3 games well have 5!
The season is over, but here's a good site to bookmark that shows each week (usually by Thursday) which games will be on where an which will be in HD.
http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/
http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/
And this link will give you every HD sports broadcast in the country for every day of the week:
http://www.hdsportsguide.com/
http://www.hdsportsguide.com/
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