Comcast's new DVR services beat satellite

[Sean Mota]

Source

After years of dismissing cable companies as technology laggards stuck on the ground as satellite TV took viewers into orbit, my head is suddenly spinning around.

Comcast (www.comcast.com), the cable provider in just about every Bay Area city, at last introduced an integrated DVR receiver locally Dec. 9. In typical Comcast fashion, the announcement was made before the customer-service department got briefed, causing several days of needless confusion. But the new box now seems to be in relatively good supply, and any back orders should be cleared up by the end of January.

That box is the Motorola DCT6412 (http://broadband.

motorola.com/dvr), with a 120-gigabyte hard drive that can hold about 60 hours of regular television or about 15 hours of HD or any mixture of the two. It's a dual-tuner design, meaning you can record one show while watching another or record two shows at once -- with one or both in HD. You can even watch a previously recorded show while two other shows are being recorded.

DirecTV charges $999 up front for its HD DVR receiver, while Dish Network charges $549. To get those prices, you need to sign a one-year service contract.

Comcast's up-front price for the Motorola box: zero. And there's no contract; if you don't like the box, you can return it right away with no penalty.

There is a monthly fee of $9.95 a month for DVR service and an optional $5 a month for HD, if you want high-definition channels, on top of whatever digital cable plan you choose. The total, $15 a month, is comparable to what you pay with an HD DVR from DirecTV or Dish Network. TiVo, the San Jose company that pioneered DVRs, charges $12.95 a month for its non-integrated, non-HD DVR.


You get the DCT6412 even if you don't yet have an HD television. It's a kind of Trojan horse -- when you eventually upgrade to HD, the box will be instantly ready to start displaying and recording HD shows.

Also, Comcast's dual tuners require only a single cable line. Dual-tuner satellite receivers require a second line from the dish to the receiver, so installers have to drill a second hole in your wall. Nor does the Comcast box require connection to a phone line, as do satellite receivers.


I got a Motorola DCT6412 on loan from Comcast at my home Dec. 17, so I've had nearly two weeks of viewing experience. I found the box easy to use, both for recording shows on the DVR and for accessing shows through On Demand. Picture and sound quality for both standard definition and HD was equivalent to satellite. On Demand had enough choices that I found a fair number of shows I'd want to watch, even though it doesn't offer any prime-time series from the big networks.

I did encounter a few small glitches, as did a friend of mine down the street who got a DCT6412 a week after me. We noticed very occasional pixelation, where a part of the picture would degenerate into small, colored squares. And we both initially encountered some bugs in the DVR functions, although the problems disappeared after about two days.

Overall, however, I'd rate Comcast's DVR and On Demand service as equal to or better than anything satellite offers now. And there's no risk in trying the Comcast DVR yourself, since you don't pay up front or sign a service contract.

Not that the market will be standing still. At the big Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week, I'm anticipating announcements from DirecTV and Dish Network that should heat up the competition even further in 2005.

 

[cyberized]

Here in the Portland, Oregon area - Comcast charges $9.95 for HD and the 6412 DVR STB. That's $9.95 total for both. I just had them replace their 6200 HD STB with the 6412 and WOW! I'm impressed - this 6412 is how they say "way COOL!". Much better than my old DISH DVR and much better than Comcast's old 6200 model - my PQ and Sound Quality both increased with this new unit.

Happy New Year! Michael

 

[Sean Mota]

Here in the Portland, Oregon area - Comcast charges $9.95 for HD and the 6412 DVR STB. That's $9.95 total for both. I just had them replace their 6200 HD STB with the 6412 and WOW! I'm impressed - this 6412 is how they say "way COOL!". Much better than my old DISH DVR and much better than Comcast's old 6200 model - my PQ and Sound Quality both increased with this new unit.

Happy New Year! Michael

Can you give us your personal review of the unit in more details? It is nice to hear it from a publisher but user first hand experience counts more.

 

[cyberized]

Sorry Sean, wish I could do an adeqate review but don't really feel that I can - so here is a LINK with over 80 pages of 6412 users' comments, GOOD and BAD!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=464986


BEST 2 ya, Michael

 

[Neutron]

One thing I see that bothers me is it has a 120 gig hard drive yet can only record 60 hours of SD programming. The 80gig DTivo records up to 70 hours.

What's the difference??

 

[TuxCoder]

Neutron, I noticed that too. They must not compress very much when encoding into MPEG.

That reminds me, I just realized a couple weeks ago while at my brother's apartment that the cable DVRs have real-time MPEG encoding capabilities for the analog channels (below 100). Of course, if I had previously devoted 10 seconds of thought to cable DVRs, I would have realized they would need that ability. That is, in my opinion, a powerful bonus not seen in satellite DVRs - at least any I know of. If my 921 had that ability, then I could also DVR (record, timeshift, etc.) my analog OTA locals and the AUX input, making it a complete DVR solution for anything I need.

But the article does need a few minor corrections--

• I don't think Dish Network requires a contract to use a newly purchased $549 (or $489) 921 receiver. Maybe so if you buy direct from them, but not from other retailers.
• With the somewhat new DishPro Plus technology, dual tuner Dish Network receivers no longer need two separate cables to be run from outside.
• The connection to a phone line isn't an absolute requirement...

 

[wmhjr]

Some other info along those lines

Adelphia came out with their DVR months ago. I tried it, and hated it. The interface was not intuitive, the quality was terrible. No optical output for 5.1. No UHF remote. That was when I had only 2 508's. I returned it in 2 days. I find the quality of my 5xx's and my 921 to be far superior. Of course, my OTAs are all HD as well, so my 921 works wonderfully.

Also: No contract necessary for the 921, period. I got mine direct from Dish. I've never used the phone line, but really don't do pay for views. That goes for all of my receivers. I also don't need two separate lines for my dual tuner 921.

I'm not a big fan of many of the things Dish has done, but when compared to Adelphia cable, there is absolutely no competition. Adelphia loses every time.

 

[aegl]

DVR vs. TiVO recording capacity

One thing I see that bothers me is it has a 120 gig hard drive yet can only record 60 hours of SD programming. The 80gig DTivo records up to 70 hours.

What's the difference??

TiVO provides you with choices of how much compression to use. The advertized capacity in hours is always at highest compression which TiVO calls "BASIC" picture quality. Personally I find this pretty ugly (like watching a video tape that was dubbed from another video tape). I find that "Medium" quality is acceptable ... but YMMV depending on the type of program you are recording (fast moving action shots are where "Basic" quallity really breaks down for me), and the quality of the signal you are recording.

The Motorola DVR doesn't let you pick different compression levels.

-Tony

 

[skakusha]

Sean,

Thanks for the info. I am a Voom and D* subscriber and was doing some research on alternatives in case Voom goes away, or an E* HD DVR replacement for my D* Tivo's (SD). I came across the article you posted and called Comcast, since the website said HDTV and DVR's where not available. I wanted to know when this would come to my area, and found out the Comcast web site was outdated. I was told that the cable network in my area had been upgraded to fiber optic and that this HD-DVR is now available.

I scheduled an install for Thursday (1/27/05), and I can post a review on the forum, as well as PQ and AQ review compared to Voom HD. As you know, there are not as many HD channels as Voom, but this is a good addition to that service.

I feel I have nothing to lose since my home owner's association includes basic cable, and Comcast will credit me the $30 a month for those HOA fees that I pay no matter what. This solution will replace my D* subscription, and give me 2 HD DVR's at a much lower monthly cost. They also gave me a promotion of half off rental fees for three months, plus half of monthly cable service for three months. As you know, Voom has been missing a DVR so this is perfect. My Voom subscription will continue until I have no choice.

Thanks again for the info. You provided me a wealth of information when I decided to go with Voom, and now once again because of the forum I may have found another good HD service.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[brian]

I just picked up a 6412 (with Pioneer Passport software) from Cox cable in Tulsa yesterday. After 1 day i have cancelled dish completely. The 6412 works more reliably, looks better, and supports name based recording (my dish 510 didn't, but supposedly will soon), has a dual-tuner, the remote works better, and the menus are considerably faster.

The only thing I don't like about the 6412 is that it doesn't give any indication of the amount of freespace left, however I've decided I like how it handles this.. basically for each 'series' you record, you can tell it how many you want it to keep and it will auto delete once it reaches that count. It supports 'prioritizing' timers so it will automatically manage conflicts. If you absolutely don't want something deleted you can mark it for manual deletion only. When you finish watching a show it asks if you want to delete or keep it.

Lastly, I like that it has firewire ports and can be hooked up to a PC or MAC for archiving shows. However I will mention that it is difficult for some people... sounds like the MAC is a breeze to use for archiving. (hmmm MAC-mini )

 

[skakusha]

Lastly, I like that it has firewire ports and can be hooked up to a PC or MAC for archiving shows. However I will mention that it is difficult for some people... sounds like the MAC is a breeze to use for archiving. (hmmm MAC-mini )

Brian,

Have you ben able to archive anything yet? I have a Mac, and a Sony with firewire ports? I will ask if the ports are active.

 

[skakusha]

HD Recordings Look Great!

I have had the box installed less than a week and thus far very impressed. Comcast has some work to do on my cable at the junction (upgrading cables) so I will not complete a review until this work has been completed.

I will say initial impressions are pretty good, even though I have been told my picture will improve. Right now HD PQ and AQ are great and recordings look awesome. Analog channels look weak which should be adjusted with the open work ticket.

More to come soon. . .

 

[wmhjr]

Well, it's changed....

Thought I'd correct an earlier post I made. After tons of problems with the 921, I finally gave Adelphia another try. This time I got a newer model - the SA8300HD DVR. It's still got some of the disadvantages of the earlier version. That is, no UHF remote, a pretty clunky user interface, and some quirks all it's own. However, it has been extremely reliable thus far, and pq/sq has bee great. It now has optical 5.1 audio output - as well as USB, 1394 and (most exciting) SATA!

Dish is gone. If anyone wants specific details let me know. Sorry for the premature post about how the 921 did. It really was great - until I needed to use OTA.

Adelphia came out with their DVR months ago. I tried it, and hated it. The interface was not intuitive, the quality was terrible. No optical output for 5.1. No UHF remote. That was when I had only 2 508's. I returned it in 2 days. I find the quality of my 5xx's and my 921 to be far superior. Of course, my OTAs are all HD as well, so my 921 works wonderfully.

Also: No contract necessary for the 921, period. I got mine direct from Dish. I've never used the phone line, but really don't do pay for views. That goes for all of my receivers. I also don't need two separate lines for my dual tuner 921.

I'm not a big fan of many of the things Dish has done, but when compared to Adelphia cable, there is absolutely no competition. Adelphia loses every time.

 

[Kentstater72]

disabled functions on FOX

wmhjr
I have the 6412 and a number of subs here in NW Ohio and SE Michigan are not able to skip or FF through certain FOX programs (24, American Idol, Alias)

I am wondering A. If you ever experienced this with the 6412 and if so
B. Do you experience this in the new STB.

There is a discussion going on if it is the boxes, the Station or what.

Thanks

 

[wmhjr]

Don't have that unit

I have Adelphia in PA, and use the SA8300HD, so I don't know. I do know that I don't currently have any issues were I can't pause, etc on anything I've got.

wmhjr
I have the 6412 and a number of subs here in NW Ohio and SE Michigan are not able to skip or FF through certain FOX programs (24, American Idol, Alias)

I am wondering A. If you ever experienced this with the 6412 and if so
B. Do you experience this in the new STB.

There is a discussion going on if it is the boxes, the Station or what.

Thanks

 

[voomster2]

No problems here on either of my 6412s.... but I'm a thousand miles away from Ohio.
American Idol FF,FF2,FF3,FF4,FF5 works just fine and believe me I give it a workout!

 

[jrjcd]

i tried to get the comcast DVR, but even tho their website says that you only have to get "digital service" to get their DVR(which their HD service is), the truth is you have to get a $60 package to get it-

Sean Mota says:
"Dual-tuner satellite receivers require a second line from the dish to the receiver, so installers have to drill a second hole in your wall"

actually, if the installer is any good & knows what he's doing, he doesn't have to drill more than one hole...lol

 

[bcshields]

I have an SA 8300.. it's a piece of crap. try watching an earlier part of a show while it's recording. It plays at live, you have to rewind it to the beginning, then if you don't catch up to live before it stops recording... it cuts you off to live again. Then you have to restart and fast forward it to the spot you got cut off at.

Very annoying.

 

[WC_SouthElgin]

I left Dish to try out a 6412 and hated it. Two months later and I've signed back with Dish.

The 6412 was flakey as can be. When turned on it wouldn't display anything, just blank, even when you changed channels. Had to start a DVR recording to get it all back. It skipped a recording the other night even though in the guide it clearly showed we had set it to record. Flipped to the other tuner and it was on another channel and not recording. No rhyme or reason for the missed recording.

Picture quality is far below Dish's. Whites look overpowered and it's obvious they're using a LOT of compression on the digital channels. I would rate their HD as just OK but I only have OTA to compare HD to.

I missed the UHF remote. I have two big dogs and a kid who all like to block the receiver whenever I need to change channels or look at the guide. If you've never had a UHF remote you wouldn't miss it but after having it, I can't live without it.

There are no custom guides. You see ALL the channels, even those you don't subscribe to and there's no logical grouping of the channels either. Example, you'll find MTV and VH1 channels spread throughout the channel list. I really don't care what's on the foreign channels but I have to look at them anyway and scroll past them EVERY time I want to see whats on the channels I do subscribe to.

The hard drive is wayyyy to small. A couple of HD recordings and you're out of space.

The FF and RW speeds are a joke. The best you get is 60X and there's no skip to the end. If you want to only see, say the last 10 minutes of a recording, plan on waiting a while for it to get there. I really missed the 300X speed of Dish.

No more caller ID.

There really isn't a single thing I'll miss about my 6412 and Comcast service. I can assure you I'll never leave Dish for Comcast again.

 

[brian]

Brian,

Have you ben able to archive anything yet? I have a Mac, and a Sony with firewire ports? I will ask if the ports are active.

Haven't tried yet.. so far space hasn't been an issue. Supposedly it is really easy to archive with a MAC.