CompUSA pushing BR

jgantert

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Visited CompUSA today, and the salesmen there were really pushing BR instead of HD-DVD.

Some such nonsense that BR is 8 layers, 200GB per disk. They also claimed the Sony BR player would be hitting stores this month, along with two laptops with BR writers in them.

I thought Sony had delayed their player till the fall, and I thougth BR was 50GB. The laptop thing might be true, tho.

Either way, they were dogging HD-DVD as "old technology".

They did have a BR demo going on an LCD TV. It was very pixelated, and reminded me of UHD back when it was on Voom. Very bad quality. I hope the real BR players don't perform this poorly.

-John
 

Turd Fergeson

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That pixelation may have just been that LCD TV. I know I'm going to get flamed but I have yet to see a LCD that wasn't pixelated. The only place I have seen them is at BB and CC. Maybe it was their input system but all of the LCDs looked bad. As for the other stuff about BR and HD DVD I thought they had similar capacity, but I don't know for sure.
 

charper1

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Blu-Ray

A single-layer Blu-Ray Disc (BD) has 25 GB.A dual-layer BD has 50GB. TDK has a working Blu-ray disk with 200GB.

HD-DVD

HD DVD has a single-layer capacity of 15 GB and a dual-layer capacity of 30 GB. Toshiba has announced plans for a triple-layer disc which offers 45GB

I would also suspect either the TV or maybe it wasn't really a BD demo, but yet a regular DVD with the BD info playing; or both.
 

navychop

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And yes, Samsung should ship their BR player this month. Two laptops? Yep. And PC BR burners out real soon if not already.

Sony delayed their PS3 until November. So long as it and some under $1,000 BR players are out for the holiday season (yes, HOLIDAY season, not Christmas- be inclusive, lot's of other religious holidays around that time), they can be competitive in the HD player and game fields. HD players will come on slowly the first year or so, IMHO.

There are no final production models on the street yet, so I don't know how good the player you saw could be.

Old technology? Yes, kinda- by design. Bad technology, no. It was less of a stretch of technology to get it to market. HD-DVD has lower capacity. The potential for size (capacity) growth is also much higher for BR. But HD-DVD made it to the streets quicker, and the plants are cheaper. Currently, the players are cheaper, as is the media. The gap will no doubt narrow. BR has it's first layer much closer to the surface. This was a concern with scratches, but a coating was developed that appears to work quite well. After it's met the kid in the living room test, we'll know for sure.

Which will win? Well, it's easier to look at which might lose. If the BR coating does not protect disks in the real world, it's down in flames. If HVD actually makes it to market at anything like advertised, and in the next couple of years or so, both HD-DVD & BluRay are toast. If the production companies do not support one format, it's toast. Right now, there is more support for BR in Hollywood. Winds have been known to shift, however. The higher capacity of BR is it's strong point. Higher transfer speeds down the road, if they actually come to pass, would be another strong point (data applications).

Porn producers will have a lot of say, if they mostly get behind just one format. They like higher capacity, to add things in like interactive features, "games" based on the movie, internet links to their sites, coming attractions, and a catalog of their offerings with clips from their movies. These features, and others, will migrate over to mainstream productions, as well.

We as consumers may be last in the decision tree as to selecting a winner. If the movies are in one format more than the other, it's pretty much decided for us.
 
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teamerickson

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How do you turn every post into a HD DVD vs Blue ray post? Answer as follows.
navychop said:
Porn producers will have a lot of say, if they mostly get behind just one format. They like higher capacity, to add things in like interactive features, "games" based on the movie, internet links to their sites, coming attractions, and a catalog of their offerings with clips from their movies. These features, and others, will migrate over to mainstream productions, as well.
I answer this using basic economic models. The porn industry is cheap, very cheap. I feel HD DVD has edge in this area as there production cost are cheaper. All things being fairly equal (picture quality, interactive features) They should choose more profit over less profit.
navychop said:
We as consumers may be last in the decision tree as to selecting a winner. If the movies are in one format more than the other, it's pretty much decided for us.
I feel we will be the first in the decision tree. The consumer will determine the adoption, through sales. Again, all things being fairly equal, cost should determine the ultimate winner. I want it cheaper, don't you?
 

charper1

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teamerickson said:
Again, all things being fairly equal, cost should determine the ultimate winner. I want it cheaper, don't you?

I want it better, cheap and 1st, should not been in one's vocabulary (at least not at the top) when talking high-end devices; quality and reliability should be.

Thus it should be wisest to wait to compare both; as on paper they are not equals, and why most ARE waiting to see BD. To make a fair and wise assesment.
 

jgantert

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charper1 said:
I want it better, cheap and 1st, should not been in one's vocabulary (at least not at the top) when talking high-end devices; quality and reliability should be.

I agree with this statement. However, there is a $500 difference in players. Is the quality and reliability (and overall "better"-ness) really worth $500.

I don't consider myself as buying "high-end" devices. However, I do appreciate the quality of HD, especially on large screens. My $999 RCA 52" HDTV that I bought in 2003 certainly is not high-end.

Not sure where I'm going with this... but I guess I just don't see the added value to the BR players. All of the reports rate the Toshiba HD-DVD player pretty good for a first gen player. I guess after the Samsung BR comes out (or atleast is more plentiful than it is now), there really might be some feature or quality difference that might really make it worth the extra money. Right now, I just don't see it tho...

-John
 

charper1

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jgantert said:
I agree with this statement. However, there is a $500 difference in players. Is the quality and reliability (and overall "better"-ness) really worth $500.

I don't consider myself as buying "high-end" devices. However, I do appreciate the quality of HD, especially on large screens. My $999 RCA 52" HDTV that I bought in 2003 certainly is not high-end.

Not sure where I'm going with this... but I guess I just don't see the added value to the BR players. All of the reports rate the Toshiba HD-DVD player pretty good for a first gen player. I guess after the Samsung BR comes out (or atleast is more plentiful than it is now), there really might be some feature or quality difference that might really make it worth the extra money. Right now, I just don't see it tho...

-John

I too appreciate HD - I have a 119" HD and a 65" HD display and I want the best for them, not the 1st or cheapest.

The HD-DVD player that is comparable to the BD players is the $800 model so that is only a $200 difference.
larger potential library
more PC/computer friendly/backing
much larger capacity
equals much larger upside
so for only $200 more equals waiting

(hmm, spell check missing mis-spelled words or just not working sometimes)
 
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Customgamer1

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The guy at compusa was doing the same thing that a Best Buy guy was doing when I went their when HD dvd first came out?

Now this brings up the question do you think Sony is paying off company's like Best Buy,Circuit city and or compusa to tell people that HD dvd player suck and should buy blue ray instead?

I know for one thing I can't wait for the HD dvd player to come out for the Xbox 360! Some people are mad because it will not have HDMI out but I am happy! one because I already use my one HDMI port for my dish box. And second I would not want to not use that $100+ cable!
 

Customgamer1

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Then if they want to seel anything why do they bash HD DVD? Maybe becasue they rather have you spend $1000 on blue ray and no $500 on HD???
 

teamerickson

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charper1 said:
The HD-DVD player that is comparable to the BD players is the $800 model so that is only a $200 difference.
? Entry level to entry level, the $500 model is the comparable. BD does have 1080p going for it (that will soon be fixed by firmware, hopefully) but sound wise the Toshiba is better.
Customgamer1 said:
Now this brings up the question do you think Sony is paying off company's like Best Buy,Circuit city and or compusa to tell people that HD dvd player suck and should buy blue ray instead?
Illegal. People are still under the impression Sony is better.
 

charper1

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When have you heard or seen a BD setup first hand to make any comparison?

Where do you see a separation between a BD entry and BD advanced player like HD-DVD? I have never seen or read about a separate line like HD-DVD. Pioneer Elite and Sony ES are not upper tiers because of features just because the way parts are selected, tested, and installed.
 

jgantert

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charper1 said:
The HD-DVD player that is comparable to the BD players is the $800 model so that is only a $200 difference.

How so? Looking at a post from Ilya a little bit ago...

"The main advantages of HD-XA1 are as follows:
1. Motion-activated remote
2. Heavier, more solid chassis
3. RS-232 interface for rack-mount installations
4. Motorized front door."

Now looking at the Samsung BR manual, it doesn't appear to have any of those features (#1, 3 & 4 are definately not there).

-John
 

charper1

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Well as I have read it, both versions will have all the new audio codecs; and I have also read that the HD-DVD player only decodes 2chnls of the lossless audio not the full 6.1 or 7.1 - can you confirm that? and.... BD will also be able to pass the full 7.1 chnl uncompressed audio (based of the specs). A Crutchfield rep quoted me all the same things. Just one more reason to wait IMHO. I want to see & hear both full featured units side by side. Its worth the extra few months. To match the best unit to my display. Unfortunately it doesn't appear we will be able to test the same exact movie in the side by side.
 

jgantert

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teamerickson said:
I was under the impression that the Samsung model is not supporting DD+ or TrueHD audio formats. That's how I came to that conclusion.
I don't see any mention of it in the online manual.
 

charper1

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jgantert said:
How so? Looking at a post from Ilya a little bit ago...

"The main advantages of HD-XA1 are as follows:
1. Motion-activated remote
2. Heavier, more solid chassis
3. RS-232 interface for rack-mount installations
4. Motorized front door."

Now looking at the Samsung BR manual, it doesn't appear to have any of those features (#1, 3 & 4 are definately not there).

-John

That is only one of the $999 models.

anyhow:

1. WTF? explain this need, really.
2. Yet to be compared to the others units, but its a great claim.
3. Nice feature, even though 95% of users will never use.
4. I can go either way on this, really no need, one more thing to collect dust and serves no real feature need.
5. not listed, but even the ethernet connection is nice for firmware updates, but the other stuff is invasive.

Non of these are so life changing (really needed) that I can't wait to test the really needed features. Like video & audio playback quality, 1080P, ease of use, buginess, title selections, industry & partner support, and overall upside, etc.
 

jgantert

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charper1 said:
Non of these are so life changing (really needed)

We're really saying the same thing here. None of those features are important to me either (except maybe the ethernet connection, but both HD-DVD models have it).

That's why I was questioning why you were using the $800 model to compare with instead of the $500 model, thats all. :)

I don't know much about the BR players from other manufactures. But right now we only have the Samsung, so I decided to compare against that one. I'm sure it won't be the BR player of choice, but until August/September or so, its going to be the only one out there to compare with. Gotta love the bleeding-edge technology!

-John
 

vurbano

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jgantert said:
We're really saying the same thing here. None of those features are important to me either (except maybe the ethernet connection, but both HD-DVD models have it).

That's why I was questioning why you were using the $800 model to compare with instead of the $500 model, thats all. :)

I don't know much about the BR players from other manufactures. But right now we only have the Samsung, so I decided to compare against that one. I'm sure it won't be the BR player of choice, but until August/September or so, its going to be the only one out there to compare with. Gotta love the bleeding-edge technology!

-John
yup its a 500 dollar price difference. Actually closer to 600 with all the freebies I got. And with a decent 1080p monitor its not going to make any difference if HDDVD spits out 1080p or not :rolleyes:
 

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