Dish 1000.4 Installation Help / Fine Tuning

[njhomeowner]

Hi,

A few months ago we had a Dish 1000.4 system installed by Dish Network and they left us with very mediocre signal strengths (30s to 50s). I have spent quite some time peaking the dish (and have also relocated it once) and now have 61.5 at 60%, 72 at 47% and 77 at 30%. I purchased the dishpointer app for iphone (very cool, by the way) and it shows I have very clear line of sight to 61.5 and 72, but 77 is iffy due to trees. The dish is mounted on top of a shed low to the ground and the line of sight is between two groups of trees I checked my high roof (which Dish also did when they came to install) and it seems like I can get over the tops of all the trees by going to the high roof.

I have read on this forum and in other places that the Dish 1000.4 is very hard to peak and align.

My question is that since I have great line of sight to 61.5 and 72 (in the current location) shouldn't they have much higher signal strengths, or do the trees to either side also affect the signal (even though they are not directly in the line of sight). I was meticulous in setting up the dish (used a bubble level on top of the mast to level in all directions). The second question I have is what is the maximum signal strength I can expect from a 1000.4 setup in a fully unobstructed installation? If 80% is the best I could do ever, then I am happy with the 60% I am currently getting on 61.5. Does my location (Northern NJ) have anything to do with signal strength? What about my LNB (I read that some of the Dish LNB's are made by Sharp and no good). Can I get a bigger "dish" to collect more of the signal and channel it to the LNBs

I have signal amplifiers inline (purchased from Sadoun online).

Also, I have installed 5 or 6 dish 500 systems and consistently gotten them to 125% signal, so I have some sort of experience with this.

Any help, comments, suggestions are appreciated.

 

[CK SatGuy]

to Satelliteguys. Usually siganls levels for the Eastern Arc are lower than Western Arc and location is usually just one facter. If you want to see what your signal levels should be for your area, check out this thread: http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/256056-list-minimum-average-thresholds.html
Hope that helps.

 

[3HaloODST]

One thing to keep in mind is that the DISH Network meters in the receivers are not "Signal Strength" indicators but rather "Signal Quality" indicators and the numbers are not a percentage at all. Thus, 50s signal strength is not "50%."

Eastern Arc is always going to have a "lower" signal quality indication as it uses 8PSK modulation and 110/119 on WA use mostly QPSK (exceptions being HD locals and a few HD nationals on 110 which use 8PSK.) 129 on WA also uses 8PSK on all transponders except TP 21, thus it has a "lower" signal quality indication on all TPs except 21.

The signal strength itself is not affected as this all has to do with FEC algorithms and 8PSK requires more FEC overhead. It will not affect rain fade or anything as long as your signal quality is at or above the thresholds mentioned in the post ckhalil18 linked to ( http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/256056-list-minimum-average-thresholds.html .)

 

[CK SatGuy]

One thing to keep in mind is that the DISH Network meters in the receivers are not "Signal Strength" indicators but rather "Signal Quality" indicators and the numbers are not a percentage at all. Thus, 50s signal strength is not "50%."

Eastern Arc is always going to have a "lower" signal quality indication as it uses 8PSK modulation and 110/119 on WA use mostly QPSK (exceptions being HD locals and a few HD nationals on 110 which use 8PSK.) 129 on WA also uses 8PSK on all transponders except TP 21, thus it has a "lower" signal quality indication on all TPs except 21.

The signal strength itself is not affected as this all has to do with FEC algorithms and 8PSK requires more FEC overhead. It will not affect rain fade or anything as long as your signal quality is at or above the thresholds mentioned in the post ckhalil18 linked to ( http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/256056-list-minimum-average-thresholds.html .)

It's funny that you should mention that because all the locals on 77, including HD locals, still use QPSK turbo coding, at least according to the list.SatelliteGuys.US_TheList - DISH Network 77°W But at some locations 77 has a lower signal quality than the other 2 EA sats. I guess location seems to be the more important factor when it comes to 77.

 

[3HaloODST]

Yeah, 77 tends to be a pretty weak sat for a lot of locations.

 

[wardfan]

It looks like your skew is a little off. If you move the dish up and down check where 77 and 61.5 go (they are the outer 2). If 77 goes up and 61.5 goes down then adjust your skew to a lower number, if 77 goes down and 61.5 goes up then adjust to a higher number. 72.7 should fall in there just fine if you get the other 2 set. I'm sure that you should be able to get 77 up to 50 or closer to it. What I do is set the left/right using the adjuster to where 77 gets as high as it goes then see where 72 gets as high as it goes and go in the middle, then adjust the elevation using the above notes.

And as for that minimum sheet, that is not correct, or at least not anymore. There is a new list of minimums out. The SAT Buddies had a minimum lvl update so I know that at least in my area the numbers are considerably higher than what's on that spreadsheet.

 

[Dr.Pepper]

It looks like your skew is a little off. If you move the dish up and down check where 77 and 61.5 go (they are the outer 2). If 77 goes up and 61.5 goes down then adjust your skew to a lower number, if 77 goes down and 61.5 goes up then adjust to a higher number. 72.7 should fall in there just fine if you get the other 2 set. I'm sure that you should be able to get 77 up to 50 or closer to it. What I do is set the left/right using the adjuster to where 77 gets as high as it goes then see where 72 gets as high as it goes and go in the middle, then adjust the elevation using the above notes.

And as for that minimum sheet, that is not correct, or at least not anymore. There is a new list of minimums out. The SAT Buddies had a minimum lvl update so I know that at least in my area the numbers are considerably higher than what's on that spreadsheet.

Actually I think that sheet is still correct for the most part. For whatever reason, Dish updated the Sat Buddies with the average instead of the minimum for each particular area. We made sure to point this out to our QASs. We were able to verify this with the last Tech Note concerning the Sat Buddies instructing how to update the thresholds and it did say on there it would show the average.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I installed , aimed and peaked my 1000.4 sat dish using the installation instructions that came with the box. I spent a few hours on it , because it is not like aiming and peaking the 1000.2 sat dish I had before. The azimuth cam is an important step that many do not bother to follow in the instructions. You can adjust it using the wrench and move it a little to the left or right till you get the sweet spot for 77 and 72.7 sats. If you adjust all the way to the left, you lose 72.7 and gain all on 77 sat and if you go to the far right you lose 77 and gain all n 72.7. Also the elevation rod is another step you can take to get the dish peaked just right for the highest signal strength on all 3 sats. I'm in southeast Texas, 90 miles from Houston ,Texas and I get the following strengths on all 3 sats:


77 sat between 45 - 55
72.7 sat between 60 - 70
61.5 sat between 50 - 70

As for the signal strength levels , you can add 30 points to any eastern arc reading and you will get a comparable reading to western arc sats. So in my case on my sats above they would read:

77 sat between 75 - 85
72.7 sat between 90 - 100
61.5 sat between 80 - 100

 

[wardfan]

Actually I think that sheet is still correct for the most part. For whatever reason, Dish updated the Sat Buddies with the average instead of the minimum for each particular area. We made sure to point this out to our QASs. We were able to verify this with the last Tech Note concerning the Sat Buddies instructing how to update the thresholds and it did say on there it would show the average.

Ok, not too sure about the other areas. But even what I've been told is minimum in my area is still considerably higher than that sheet, but idk, it will at least get him in a ballpark area.

I installed , aimed and peaked my 1000.4 sat dish using the installation instructions that came with the box. I spent a few hours on it , because it is not like aiming and peaking the 1000.2 sat dish I had before. The azimuth cam is an important step that many do not bother to follow in the instructions. You can adjust it using the wrench and move it a little to the left or right till you get the sweet spot for 77 and 72.7 sats. If you adjust all the way to the left, you lose 72.7 and gain all on 77 sat and if you go to the far right you lose 77 and gain all n 72.7. Also the elevation rod is another step you can take to get the dish peaked just right for the highest signal strength on all 3 sats. I'm in southeast Texas, 90 miles from Houston ,Texas and I get the following strengths on all 3 sats:


77 sat between 45 - 55
72.7 sat between 60 - 70
61.5 sat between 50 - 70

As for the signal strength levels , you can add 30 points to any eastern arc reading and you will get a comparable reading to western arc sats. So in my case on my sats above they would read:

77 sat between 75 - 85
72.7 sat between 90 - 100
61.5 sat between 80 - 100

Adding 30? NO western arc sat (and especially not 129) will measure between 90-100, that is an OLD measurement and you're lucky to even get 80 for that matter. Adding a number value is irrelevant since they aren't really to be compared other than they are different. Just get to the minimums stated and forget this little bit. If you can get 50 on 72 while getting 55+ on 61.5 (which should be easy since you can get 60 on it) then you should be doing good. Since 77 is iffy with the trees just see what best you can get, but anything above 46-48 should be good for you.

 

[3HaloODST]

I agree, the 30-point thing IMO is not an accurate statement. On the western arc the highest you are ever going to see is in the low 90s. Also, on 129, TP 19 (for me) is about 60, and TP 21 is about 78, 19 being 8PSK and 21 being QPSK. That would mean approximately an 18-point difference, not 30. But as was previously stated, the two different readings aren't really comparable. Once 110/119 move to 8PSK (when DISH can get rid of all old QPSK-only receivers) then WA and EA signal strengths can be more comparable. Though, they will still have different signal quality thresholds.

 

[wardfan]

They've been pushing for that a lot lately. The last 2 days I've gone to 4 service calls for 015 that had 301 QPSK only swap outs as part of the w/o.

 

[Dr.Pepper]

Ok, not too sure about the other areas. But even what I've been told is minimum in my area is still considerably higher than that sheet, but idk, it will at least get him in a ballpark area.

You may be 100% correct about the minimums being raised with an update. That I really haven't checked. I was just pointing out that the Sat Buddies are showing the average (or perhaps "updated average") with this latest update.

Bottom line, as long as I"m right there on the average, I don't have to even think about the minimums.