Dish Alignment for Locals

[ramysr]

A few weeks back a Dish Tech was out to repair a broken mount. My set up prior to arrival consisted of my main Dish looking at 110, 119 & 129 with a wing Dish pointed at 61.5. The main Dish had the broken mount. The tech arrived and I showed him what I had and he said his order was for him to move me to the eastern arc. he took out the main Dish and put me on 61.5 & 72.7. My signal level is fine for everything but my local channels. Signal on locals avg 18 and all other channels are 50-60.

I think I know what is going on but here is my question. After the tech aligned the dish he checked signal levels and then realigned again. When he was done he checked signal levels on the Dish receiver but noticed a low reading on transponder 21 on 61.5 which is the one for my locals. He changed the transponder he was looking at and got a 50+ reading and called it good. I believe that transponder 21 is a spot beam and that the dish is still not properly aligned. Why else would this be the only transponder with a low signal level? Every time there is a hint of rain I get a signal loss now.

I welcome all comments.
Thanks

 

[robstudio]

Sounds like the dish is aligned if you're getting 50+ on a different transponder. What is city for locals and how far out from the center of the spot are you? http://satmaps.satelliteguys.us/ will show your spot beam. My guess is that you're close to the fringe on the spot. Won't be much you can do, if that's the case.

 

[Tampa8]

Couple of things.
Reading will be different (lower) from the EA than the WA even when aligned properly so don't worry if they are overall lower. 50's are good for EA, I get about that and in the mid to high 70's on WA.

However, you should not be losing the signal for any channels including those that are spotbeam in everyday rain. As posted it could be you are on the extreme fringe, or it could be the dish needs to be aimed better. Don't live with it, make them get it right.

 

[robstudio]

My signal level is fine for everything but my local channels. Signal on locals avg 18 and all other channels are 50-60.

He's getting a signal strength of 18 on his spot transponder and 50 + on others... something's not right with that.

 

[harshness]

The weather at your location isn't what causes rain fade. Rain fade comes from storm clouds between you and the satellite. Without something more specific than "georgia" to go on, it is difficult to assess what the problem might be. If you named the TV market you're in or gave us a zip code we could be more specific about which transponder it is.

Spot beam 21 is not yours. It points at San Francisco (Echostar XII) or Mexico City (Echostar XVI). Yours is more likely spot beam 10 (Jax) or 59 (Atlanta).

You can't align a pizza dish for a particular transponder. You are either looking toward the satellite 22,000 miles distant or you aren't. The difference in angle between the downlink dishes at that distance isn't something you can adjust to.

Here's the resource that I used to figure out possible transponders:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php

 

[ramysr]

Thanks for the replies. My zip is 31005 and I'm in the Macon, Georgia DMA.

Over a year ago ( time flies ) I lost my local HD channels when Dish moved them to 61.5. They came out and added a wing dish to solve the problem. I had no problems with the spot beam signal till now when as I stated they moved me to the eastern arc. The took out the wing dish and replaced it with a dual LNB to pick up the 72.7 sat. My locals signal level has been crappy ever since. My next move is to call Dish to fix the problem.

I have a 40 year background in telecommunications with extensive troubleshooting skills. What I do not have is extensive experience in satellite communications thus I turn to this forum for advice before I go to Dish to argue with someone that asks me questions from a script.

Harshness is missing my issue with regard to my dish alignment. I know you can't align to a transponder. My problem is with my local HD's originating from transponder 21 on the 61.5 satellite. The majority of the other dish channels on this sat. are in SD and I don't watch SD. Also he may want to research rain fade conditions. Storm clouds are loaded with moisture either actively falling as rain or about to. The water droplets are causing the signal attenuation.

 

[Bobby]

Your locals are on transponder 21, SPOTBEAM 59. When you look, are you seeing spotbeam 59 as well as transponder 21? You might want to contact DIRT right here on this website. They are Dish employees and don't operate from a script.

 

[robstudio]

Perhaps a dual dish, single lnb setup would get the signal to a tolerable level.. if the wing worked before.. you'd need a switch as well.

 

[jcanavera]

I know I'm looking to upgrade to a newer Hopper unit. I thought they would just send me out a new receiver but they want to send out a tech to realign my dish to the eastern arc. My son got Dish just over a year ago and the tech who came out said all of his orders for repairs or new installs now require Eastern arc alignments. As it ended up he got a western alignment due to trees blocking the eastern view. I would agree that if your level of service has gone down, you need to get them back to find the problem or realign you back to the western arc. Obviously the tech has the option to use west if the eastern alignment is not acceptable.

Jack


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[harshness]

I know you can't align to a transponder.

Judging from the title of the thread, isn't that precisely what you asked for advice on how to do?

My problem is with my local HD's originating from transponder 21 on the 61.5 satellite.

There are nine transponder 21s on 61.5W. Only one of them (spot beam 59) is available to you.

The majority of the other dish channels on this sat. are in SD and I don't watch SD.

There are dozens of local channels on 61.5W (many of them on transponder 21) that you probably wouldn't watch either, but they're there for others, not just for you.

Also he may want to research rain fade conditions. Storm clouds are loaded with moisture either actively falling as rain or about to. The water droplets are causing the signal attenuation.

The mathematical function for rain fade is Loss=rate * distance. If there's little to no distance that the signal must pass through, there's no loss. If it has to pass through 20 miles of laden clouds before it gets to you, there will be big loss even if it is sunny where you are. One of the components of the rate factor is dispersion of the signal and the further away the dispersion occurs, the more impact it will have.

The most important part of troubleshooting is being able to quickly reject what isn't in play.

Of course all of this is academic since you're getting the same signals from the same satellite. If you've taken a hit it is more likely due to a birdie in the LNB assembly or cabling at just the wrong frequency causing interference. The signal level is more a measure of quality than of strength so you may be getting a strong signal that is being interfered with. I'd be asking DISH to come back out and deal with it.

 

[ramysr]

I contacted the DIRT team and they agreed with my assessment that I have an alignment issue.

When looking at signal levels and system information I did not see any reference to a specific spot beam. This contributed to my confusion that transponder 21 was a spot beam.

Thanks to those that provided positive and helpful replies.

 

[sam_gordon]

I contacted the DIRT team and they agreed with my assessment that I have an alignment issue.

I agree with others... alignment will not affect a single transponder. If "50" is a "normal" signal for other transponders, I doubt alignment will help you with Tx21.

HOWEVER, if they can peak you up to a "70" (for example) on the other transponders, that will increase Tx21.

 

[boba]

Or they might look for an other cause such as a receiver problem or a bad cable. I've seen cable that was bad at a specific frequency but passed others with no problem.

 

[JSheridan]

Or they might look for an other cause such as a receiver problem or a bad cable. I've seen cable that was bad at a specific frequency but passed others with no problem.

That or even a bad LNB might cause a problem on a specific frequency.

 

[ChadT41]

Question for you techs out there... Is there a left or right polarization, similar to that of satellite internet? I'm guessing not, and almost positive not, but y'all will be the experts.

 

[ramysr]

Just a little more info on my setup. I have two receivers ( 722 & 722K ) and they both have the same issue.

If the dish tech solves the problem tomorrow, I'll post the solution.

 

[JSheridan]

With that new information I'd definitely guess it's either alignment or the LNB.

 

[TheKrell]

Is there a left or right polarization, similar to that of satellite internet?

Yup. Dish uses circular polarization on most if not all sats. I'm not sure about 118, but I think it's also circular.

 

[harshness]

Question for you techs out there... Is there a left or right polarization, similar to that of satellite internet? I'm guessing not, and almost positive not, but y'all will be the experts.

That the LNB is receiving signal from two non-adjacent satellites would remove polarity issues from concern even if they were linearly polarized.

 

[bentjm]

I live down the road from Macon and get Macon locals. I moved down here a little over a year ago. I get a lot more rain related problems on EA than I did in TN on WA, but there are a lot more thunderstorms down here too.