DISH Buying TIVO?

[riffjim4069]

You have yer to show any proof that the VIP's can be included so I have had to repeat what was shown in the other threads that the VIP's were not included in the suit and would have to be listed in another suit. Your attitude from the start has been Charlie should roll over and just pay TIVO. I want to see this played out and finished so that TIVO has to give up this "Spanish Inquisition" techniques that they have deployed towards everyone that has a competing product. So show some proof that the VIP's can be included in the original suit. Neither you nor thomas22 has sown anything that would allow TIVO to include them in this. The dissenting opinon of the 3rd judge seems like this case may even have a chance help produce the en banc that E* has asked for. So we will see if either you roll over & die attitude or thomas22's TIVO fan boy haven't done anything to change most everyone's mind here.

All of these questions have been asked and answered many times over. Since I cannot understand your motivation, I'll address your questions the best I can.

You have yer to show any proof that the VIP's can be included so I have had to repeat what was shown in the other threads that the VIP's were not included in the suit and would have to be listed in another suit.

You have been provided with the verbiage from Judge Folsom's order many times in multiple threads like this one. However, here is the text once again for our reading displeasure:

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED THAT
Each Defendant, its officers, agents, servants, employees and attorneys, and those persons in active concert or participation with them who receive actual notice hereof, are hereby restrained and enjoined, pursuant to 35 U.S.C. § 283 and Fed. R. Civ. P. 65(d), from making, using, offering to sell or selling in the Untied States, the Infringing Products, either alone or in combination with any other product and all other products that are only colorably different therefrom in the context of the Infringed Claims, whether individually or in combination with other products or as a part of another product, and from otherwise infringing or inducing others to infringe the Infringed Claims of the ‘389 patent.
​

Again, there is no debating the plain language of the order. Clearly, it is up to Judge Folsom to decide if the VIP Series DVRs are more than colorably different...or tell Tivo to "pound sand" and file separate motions.

Your attitude from the start has been Charlie should roll over and just pay TIVO.

You need to check your facts because I was a long-time supporter of Dish fighthing this lawsuit. However, once the jury sided and Tivo...the verdict was uphelp by the appeallate court...the Supreme Court declined to hear Dish's appeal...and Dish was found in contempt of court for failing to obey the court order to disable infringing DVR models...well, my attitude changed. In my opinion Charlie, as the CEO, has a fiduciary obligation to maximize shareholder wealth and increase the price of common stock. Moreover, the CEO must exercise due care to minimize risks, business losses, and comply with all applicable laws and industry regulations. Whether he likes Tivo or not is irrelevant since he must act in a prudent and responsible manner. Again, this was all mentioned in this post which was provided for your reading displeasure. Here is yet another example of why I now disagree with Charlie continuing his verision of the "Spanish Inquisition" as you so eloquently mentioned - because it is costing Dish Network shareholders billions...yes, billions! Dish Network stakeholders (to include customers who are also footing the bill) should be outraged!

I want to see this played out and finished so that TIVO has to give up this "Spanish Inquisition" techniques that they have deployed towards everyone that has a competing product.

Noble...yes! But foolish (see my aforementioned comments) given the history of this case? Absolutely! There is a time to fight and there is a time for diplomacy, which is part of the due care obligation to minimize business losses I already mentioned. Unfortunately, this fight is long over and Dish's so-called "legal strategy and tactics" are doing nothing but costing the company billions. What's not to understand?

The dissenting opinon of the 3rd judge seems like this case may even have a chance help produce the en banc that E* has asked for.

So your hopes and dreams are built on the lone disenting opinon of Judge Rader while dismissing the majority opinion of the appeallate court? That's akin to saying the Indianapolis Colts will win Superbowl XLIV on appeal because they scored some points during the game - completely forgetting that New Orleans scored twice as many points. To put this into perspective...Judge Rader's dissenting opinion and $2 will buy you a cup of coffee and nothing more. Looking as history, the odds of this case being heard en banc are very slim; the odds of the contempt motion being overturned en banc are extremely very slim; and the odds of the Supreme Court hearing this case is almost nil. This information has also been posted somewhere in this thread.

So we will see if either you roll over & die attitude or thomas22's TIVO fan boy haven't done anything to change most everyone's mind here.

Again, I would have been very happy if E* won this case because Tivo's patents have, in my opinion, hurt the consumer DVR market. However, the courts have ruled and ruled and ruled again on this matter...all siding with Tivo. The only one rolling over and dying is Dish - they and their fanboys are in denial and/or too stubborn to realize it. If you're correct and the courts do a 180 and side with Dish...that's great! I just don't see it happening, and I see Dish paying billions to buy their way out of this situation.

Links:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...ces-april-30-deadline-tivo-3.html#post2151324
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/207082-dish-buying-tivo-7.html#post2148376
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...ds-echostar-contempt-tivo-37.html#post2144329
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...d-taste-their-own-medicine-6.html#post2083435
http://www.satelliteguys.us/general...hey-ergen-show-us-love-tivo-2.html#post523020

I'm just calling it like I see it. While I am not going to get into the issue of whether Thomas is trolling...the guy has been on-the-money when it comes to this case.

 

[whatchel1]

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED THAT
Each Defendant, its officers, agents, servants, employees and attorneys, and those persons in active concert or participation with them who receive actual notice hereof, are hereby restrained and enjoined, pursuant to 35 U.S.C. § 283 and Fed. R. Civ. P. 65(d), from making, using, offering to sell or selling in the Untied States, the Infringing Products, either alone or in combination with any other product and all other products that are only colorably different therefrom in the context of the Infringed Claims, whether individually or in combination with other products or as a part of another product, and from otherwise infringing or inducing others to infringe the Infringed Claims of the ‘389 patent.
​

Again, there is no debating the plain language of the order. Clearly, it is up to Judge Folsom to decide if the VIP Series DVRs are more than colorably different...or tell Tivo to "pound sand" and file separate motions.


So your hopes and dreams are built on the lone disenting opinon of Judge Rader while dismissing the majority opinion of the appeallate court?

I'm just calling it like I see it. While I am not going to get into the issue of whether Thomas is trolling...the guy has been on-the-money when it comes to this case.

Now the problem with that statement (about infringing products) is that it would mean that an entirely new DVR would have to have proof they have been using the same s/w that infringed the TIVO patients. So the case of colorably different would have to be proved most likely in another suit. I don't think that Folsom can rule on systems that have not been included in the existing case.

Yes I hope the the dissenting opinion will make a difference.

I've yet to see him hit anything right. He is nothing more than a major TIVO fan boy that has some axe to grind and comes here to do it. You on the other hand just gave up w/ the 1st ruling. I really like the fact that Charlie didn't give up and has forced TIVO to post more & more red ink which will help to hurt there operations. If he can I would like to see him hurt them even more so maybe they can be taken over by him or someone else to end their terrorism in the DVR market.

 

[meStevo]

It's hilarious all the names you guys come up with for what Tivo is doing especially the latest one... now they're terrorists?? lol.

At least they make a product, so many companies that just own patents and live only to sue people based off their value.

Why is there an assumption that Dish would be the one to buy TiVo? What if ATT, DirecTV, Verizon or Comcast swooped in and bought them? They still have to protect TiVo's patent portfolio. It makes the most sense, sure, since there's a half billion dollars coming out of Dish's pocket at some point in the future. The WORST scenario is probably something you just suggested, them being taken over by someone else. You want half a billion to go into DirecTV's pocket as a result of Dish's infringement (on top of a licensing fee perhaps?), but it'd be OK since TiVo got what was coming to them?

 

[whatchel1]

whowver

It's hilarious all the names you guys come up with for what Tivo is doing especially the latest one... now they're terrorists?? lol.

At least they make a product, so many companies that just own patents and live only to sue people based off their value.

Why is there an assumption that Dish would be the one to buy TiVo? What if ATT, DirecTV, Verizon or Comcast swooped in and bought them? They still have to protect TiVo's patent portfolio. It makes the most sense, sure, since there's a half billion dollars coming out of Dish's pocket at some point in the future. The WORST scenario is probably something you just suggested, them being taken over by someone else. You want half a billion to go into DirecTV's pocket as a result of Dish's infringement (on top of a licensing fee perhaps?), but it'd be OK since TiVo got what was coming to them?

My feeling is I would like to see E* get them but anyone is better than who is running the place now. I doubt the D* would be the buyer w/ Malone leaving and he was the big Bucks over there.

 

[Thomas22]

I don't think that Folsom can rule on systems that have not been included in the existing case.

"A contempt proceeding for violation of a patent infringement injunction will lie where the new and alleged offending device is merely 'colorably' different from the enjoined device or from the patent." In American Foundry & Mfg. Co. v. Josam Mfg. Co., supra, this Court held, 79 F.2d at 117:10
​

The contempt process would be the same as the recent contempt case. TiVo would file a motion for a contempt finding then the discovery process would begin. Dish would file a brief and provide documentation to support a claim that the ViP DVRs are more than colorably different. TiVo would then file a reply brief. Dish would file a reply to that brief etc. Then there would be a hearing before Judge Folsom to hear testimony and determine the facts.

 

[whatchel1]

SkyBOX: The Great EchoStar/DISH/TiVo Conundrum

Will EchoStar get itself (and DISH) out of deep DVR doo-doo by buying TiVo?

The media biz was buzzing over that one late last week after Wall Street put its official stamp of possibility upon the idea via a missive from Citigroup analyst Jason Bazinet.

The thought is not exactly original. Such rumors have been circulating since early March when the U.S. Court of Appeals upheld a lower court's ruling that EchoStar/DISH are still in violation of TiVo's patents. Still, Bazinet's note speculating on a EchoStar purchase (to say nothing of the looming settlement deadline of April 30) fanned the fires to near hysteria levels.

What I want to know is: Why are we all (myself included) talking about EchoStar buying TiVo? I mean, shouldn't it be the other way around? After all, TiVo's got the big $400 million (or whatever huge number) gun pointed at EchoStar/DISH. TiVo's got the heft too: A $2 billion market cap versus EchoStar's $1.6 billion. Of course, neither one is exactly swimming in cash ... and I suspect Tom Rogers doesn't really want a bunch of satellites on his hands. But hey ... the set-top box business? Slingbox?

Maybe we've all been too conditioned, for too long, about Charlie Ergen's mastery of the control game. But this time (to use a shop-worn metaphor) he really doesn't have the cards. So we'll see. At the very least, it will be interesting.
(Sky Report)

 

[meStevo]

Yeah, that was the link posted in reply to one of my posts a page back. Should link to stuff and quote excerpts and not just paste the entire article though.

 

[Greg Bimson]

With out [the ViP Series DVR's] being part of the original suit it will be hard for them to be added after the fact. Your job would be to prove there is some proof that they could be included and so far no one has been able to do that.

There are separate, distinct issues going on here...

Technically, the ViP series is not subject to the disable order. There isn't any sense to worry about those until...

TiVo files a contempt motion because they feel the ViP series is infringing and merely colorably different than those found as infringements. That would be a violation of the order against sales or use of a product which infringes. If the ViP series was then found to be both an infringement and merely colorably different than the originally adjudged receivers, the injunction would then be amended to include the ViP series to the disable order.

There are about (as of July) 4 million receivers that have been ordered disabled. That would only be for the eight models of DVR that were found infringing twice.

 

[Thomas22]

TiVo files a contempt motion because they feel the ViP series is infringing and merely colorably different than those found as infringements. That would be a violation of the order against sales or use of a product which infringes. If the ViP series was then found to be both an infringement and merely colorably different than the originally adjudged receivers, the injunction would then be amended to include the ViP series to the disable order.

and Dish will have been in contempt for the period beginning with deployment of the ViP series.

 

[Greg Bimson]

and Dish will have been in contempt for the period beginning with deployment of the ViP series.

I don't know what would completely be entailed. Think about this, because I don't believe it to be so cut-and-dried...

We know the ViP 622 was released in the early part of 2006. TiVo tried to attach the series to the suit after the jury returned their guilty verdict but failed. The software on the 622/722 was modified when the software on the eight models of DVR, so the assumption is that the ViP series when deployed was running just like the 5XX series, the 522/625 series and the 721/921/942 series. That is, the ViP 622 had the media switch, and therefore was running as an infringement.

I'd think TiVo would need to state that basically the ViP series when deployed was running like the 721/921/942, and then was changed to run just like the modified DVR's that were found infringing during the contempt proceeding.

 

[Thomas22]

I don't know what would completely be entailed. Think about this, because I don't believe it to be so cut-and-dried...

We know the ViP 622 was released in the early part of 2006. TiVo tried to attach the series to the suit after the jury returned their guilty verdict but failed. The software on the 622/722 was modified when the software on the eight models of DVR, so the assumption is that the ViP series when deployed was running just like the 5XX series, the 522/625 series and the 721/921/942 series. That is, the ViP 622 had the media switch, and therefore was running as an infringement.

I'd think TiVo would need to state that basically the ViP series when deployed was running like the 721/921/942, and then was changed to run just like the modified DVR's that were found infringing during the contempt proceeding.

OK then. That sounds right.

 

[riffjim4069]

Now the problem with that statement (about infringing products) is that it would mean that an entirely new DVR would have to have proof they have been using the same s/w that infringed the TIVO patients. So the case of colorably different would have to be proved most likely in another suit. I don't think that Folsom can rule on systems that have not been included in the existing case.

You may very well be correct, but there is little doubt in my mind that Judge Folsom feels he has the power to rule on this matter. Going back a few years, Judge Folsom (this is merely my opinion) has been sending clear signals that he wanted both sides to negotiate a licensing agreement. In fact, I think Judge Folsom hoped the strong language contained in the order would force both sides to reach an agreement, and he is probably is baffled this case is still on the docket.

I really like the fact that Charlie didn't give up and has forced TIVO to post more & more red ink which will help to hurt there operations. If he can I would like to see him hurt them even more so maybe they can be taken over by him or someone else to end their terrorism in the DVR market.

I would have liked to have seen Tivo lose this case as well, but that ship has sailed and the odds of the full appellate court overturning a ruling made by the appellate court (panel) is rare. Anyway, I am holding-out much greater hope for the Telcos (Verizon and AT&T) and Microsoft in their upcoming battles with Tivo.

Hey, if E* purchases Tivo they become the new Tivo. How ironic! All the fanboys will have to kick their own arse.

 

[Greg Bimson]

Now the problem with that statement (about infringing products) is that it would mean that an entirely new DVR would have to have proof they have been using the same s/w that infringed the TIVO patients. So the case of colorably different would have to be proved most likely in another suit. I don't think that Folsom can rule on systems that have not been included in the existing case.

You may very well be correct, but there is little doubt in my mind that Judge Folsom feels he has the power to rule on this matter.

The actual problem is the understanding of "colorably different".

Colorably different can only be decided within a hearing regarding a motion for contempt. Therefore, it isn't that there needs to be "proof they have been using the same s/w that infringed the TIVO patients". The issue is that the colorably different evaluation simply compares the accused product against the claim limitations met by the products found as infringements. If the accused product meets the claim limitatons in substantially the same manner as the products which were found to infringe, then the product is merely colorably different (and by default, those products would be an infringement).

Folsom certainly can rule on a product that wasn't part of the original suit. However, the very first requirement is that a motion for contempt be filed.

 

[whatchel1]

thanks

The actual problem is the understanding of "colorably different".

Colorably different can only be decided within a hearing regarding a motion for contempt. Therefore, it isn't that there needs to be "proof they have been using the same s/w that infringed the TIVO patients". The issue is that the colorably different evaluation simply compares the accused product against the claim limitations met by the products found as infringements. If the accused product meets the claim limitatons in substantially the same manner as the products which were found to infringe, then the product is merely colorably different (and by default, those products would be an infringement).

Folsom certainly can rule on a product that wasn't part of the original suit. However, the very first requirement is that a motion for contempt be filed.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Hey, if E* purchases Tivo they become the new Tivo. How ironic! All the fanboys will have to kick their own arse.

How many of them would drop TiVO if Dish purcahsed them? And what would Thomas do for work if DISH purchased the company? Oh well I guess there are always ambulances he can chase.

 

[Tyralak]

How many of them would drop TiVO if Dish purcahsed them? And what would Thomas do for work if DISH purchased the company? Oh well I guess there are always ambulances he can chase.

:up +1

 

[whatchel1]

+1

How many of them would drop TiVO if Dish purcahsed them? And what would Thomas do for work if DISH purchased the company? Oh well I guess there are always ambulances he can chase.

love it

 

[meStevo]

Before you know it this site would be pimping Dish TiVo w/ Sling

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Before you know it this site would be pimping Dish TiVo w/ Sling

When they buy them they are going to comine the VIP Sling load Tivo into a simple new name...

The Sledge O' Matic!

 

[whatchel1]

slingo

When they buy them they are going to comine the VIP Sling load Tivo into a simple new name...

The Sledge O' Matic!

I heard they were gonna name it the Slingo but the name was taken. Slingo on Yahoo! Games