DISH discontinuing 921?
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Well, if you believe the E* rah-rah crew, they won't be discontinuing it.
If you look at it objectively, they're going to do just enough to try to forestall the class action lawsuits.
If you look at it objectively, they're going to do just enough to try to forestall the class action lawsuits.
Man, no matter what we believe (and I think the 921 will rapidly disappear when the 942 is released), I can't believe a CSR told you that....
No, actually, I believe it. But I'd bet you $25 he is blowing steam, and knows nothing as far as a true Echostar plan.
Just as with the 721, some level of 921 support will be maintained, the machine will EVENTUALLY reach a reasonable level of stability. Don't expect to see a lot of new features (we'll be lucky to get Named-Based-Recording - E* had no qualms covering up the firewire port).
No, actually, I believe it. But I'd bet you $25 he is blowing steam, and knows nothing as far as a true Echostar plan.
Just as with the 721, some level of 921 support will be maintained, the machine will EVENTUALLY reach a reasonable level of stability. Don't expect to see a lot of new features (we'll be lucky to get Named-Based-Recording - E* had no qualms covering up the firewire port).
Hey,
It's been many years, but my 7200 still works and received software updates this year. I suspect that even if they don't "produce" and sell more 921's, you'll be able to receive updates and service for many years to come.
As to their decision to stop selling the 921, it wouldn't suprise me. Whenever a DVR product has been released that takes a lot of effort to fix and has lots of negative feedback, they tend to run..... ala 7200.
As it currently stands, my 7200 works great as a PVR and Dish 500 receiver (have a DP legacy adapter for use with my DP 500 Dish). There are several features that it used to have that have since been removed and discontinued.
1. Games (used to have You don't know Jack, Doom and Solitare).
2. Interactive News (had a Channel 201 that you could configure for local weather, news, sports and stocks).
I miss them, but guess that's the sacrifice needed to get it stable, or the result of moving away from a WebTV product.
Frankly, you already had this happen with the "Dishwire" 1394 like ports.
It's been many years, but my 7200 still works and received software updates this year. I suspect that even if they don't "produce" and sell more 921's, you'll be able to receive updates and service for many years to come.
As to their decision to stop selling the 921, it wouldn't suprise me. Whenever a DVR product has been released that takes a lot of effort to fix and has lots of negative feedback, they tend to run..... ala 7200.
As it currently stands, my 7200 works great as a PVR and Dish 500 receiver (have a DP legacy adapter for use with my DP 500 Dish). There are several features that it used to have that have since been removed and discontinued.
1. Games (used to have You don't know Jack, Doom and Solitare).
2. Interactive News (had a Channel 201 that you could configure for local weather, news, sports and stocks).
I miss them, but guess that's the sacrifice needed to get it stable, or the result of moving away from a WebTV product.
Frankly, you already had this happen with the "Dishwire" 1394 like ports.
Lets face it, Dish management has never been happy with the 921, they didn't like the hardware and they didn't like the software. They also didn't like the fact that the software was being made in England.
I have had talks with Jim Defranco myself about the 921 software and the 942, and even he said they were extremely disapointed with the software Eldon put out.
Now yes it true the 921 is going to be discontinued, I don't think it's discontinued yet, infact I am 90% sure it's not.
I will say that Dish is having trouble moving 921's before they couldn't keep them in stock and now they can't get rid of them. That to me is kind of disturbing, the big question is WHY people don't want these units, is it because of all the bugs reported in the software? Is it because the promise of Firewire only to release the unit then drop support for Firewire devolopment? Is it because of the lack of real HD content on Dish Network? Is it that people are gettinig tired of buying a product and having to wait two to 3 years before it works as advertised?
Those are questions Dish Management should really be asking.
I have had talks with Jim Defranco myself about the 921 software and the 942, and even he said they were extremely disapointed with the software Eldon put out.
Now yes it true the 921 is going to be discontinued, I don't think it's discontinued yet, infact I am 90% sure it's not.
I will say that Dish is having trouble moving 921's before they couldn't keep them in stock and now they can't get rid of them. That to me is kind of disturbing, the big question is WHY people don't want these units, is it because of all the bugs reported in the software? Is it because the promise of Firewire only to release the unit then drop support for Firewire devolopment? Is it because of the lack of real HD content on Dish Network? Is it that people are gettinig tired of buying a product and having to wait two to 3 years before it works as advertised?
Those are questions Dish Management should really be asking.
No argument, but if they don't like the hardware, why'd they approve it? Ditto for the software, especially the outsourcing.Scott Greczkowski said:
In other words, E* management is mad at themselves for stuff they've done to themselves over and over?
Isn't that one of the definitions of clinical insanity?
Or of one hand doesn't know what the other is doing... "what we have here is a failure to communicate" ....
My theory on why the 921's aren't moving just builds on what others have said.
#1. Cost - Even at $839.00 out of pocket, unless you are a techno junkie with cash to burn, most people will opt for a contracted free 811 or 522. Not to mention the cost of the HD monitor/RPTV/Plasma screen to make it work. Only 15% of housholds have HD capable TV's at present.
#2. Content - There isn't enough true HD content to justify #1 and the additional $10.00 per month. Not up-rezzed SD programs either. It's getting better month by month, but its not to a point where it will make people jump to HD and PVR bandwagon in one step. Long live HD-Net & Discovery HD!
#3. Consumer ignorance. People contacting E* to sign up have NO IDEA what equipment is available to them. The majority believe that HDTV is a television channel that shows you how to landscape your yard and build a deck.
Once High Def becomes more mainstream, the demand for a Hi-Def DVR will rise. 942's will follow on the path that the 921 initially started. By that time, their may even be a 3rd generation DVR. I give it 2-3 more years before you see a real market for this kind of device.
All we can do is watch and wait.... It's the price we pay for being on the bleeding edge.
#1. Cost - Even at $839.00 out of pocket, unless you are a techno junkie with cash to burn, most people will opt for a contracted free 811 or 522. Not to mention the cost of the HD monitor/RPTV/Plasma screen to make it work. Only 15% of housholds have HD capable TV's at present.
#2. Content - There isn't enough true HD content to justify #1 and the additional $10.00 per month. Not up-rezzed SD programs either. It's getting better month by month, but its not to a point where it will make people jump to HD and PVR bandwagon in one step. Long live HD-Net & Discovery HD!
#3. Consumer ignorance. People contacting E* to sign up have NO IDEA what equipment is available to them. The majority believe that HDTV is a television channel that shows you how to landscape your yard and build a deck.
Once High Def becomes more mainstream, the demand for a Hi-Def DVR will rise. 942's will follow on the path that the 921 initially started. By that time, their may even be a 3rd generation DVR. I give it 2-3 more years before you see a real market for this kind of device.
All we can do is watch and wait.... It's the price we pay for being on the bleeding edge.
Scott Greczkowski said:
Every time I talk about the greatness of recording / time-shifting / viewing HD (be it with fellow Dish customers or DirecTv customers) they all tell me price is the reason they haven't upgraded to a 921 / HDTivo. I think its a bigger factor then most make it out to be.
You also need to remember the 921 is now about 1 year old. Dish has very few models that ran more than a year in production. The 301 and the 6000 are the two that come to mind. The 301 is actually two versions 010 & 013 and the 6000 was actually out of production for about a year before they cleared the inventory out of their wharehouses.
I am one of those who has wanted HD recording for more than a year, but has held off buying the 921 for the following reasons:
1. I already have a 6000 and only 1 HDTV. I don't need a second HD receiver. If I get a 921, I have the problem of what to do with the 6000.
2. Most of the programming that I want to record (football games and networks programming) I get OTA. From what I read here, this is where the 921 has the most problems (no reliable EPG, no name-based recording, timer conflicts, etc.). These were supposed to be fixed last summer, but still only promises.
3. Complexity. I know that there a work-arounds for many of the 921 bugs, but my wife doesn't want to have to refer to a trouble-shooting checklist to make sure she can record Desperate Housewives. There also seem to be many issues related to proper installation. (What are the right switches, cables, diplexers, adapters, order of connections, etc. for your configuration of receivers?) If I try to save a few bucks on a group buy, how do I know what other installation hardware I need, and how do I arrange installation?
4. Cost. I can afford a 921, but am still concerned about value. I would not complain about the cost if it were reliable and easy to use. But given the current shortcomings, even $839 + extra installation hardware seems like a lot for what you get, particularly if something better might be available in the near future. Trouble is that no one seems to know what, if any, major improvements will be incorporated into the 942 vs. new bugs and problems.
Now any one of these complaints alone would not be enough to deter me from buying a 921. It's the combination of all of these factors that have me on hold. If new software releases fix the problems related to OTA recording, I would most likely take the plunge. But for now, I'm still watching and waiting.
1. I already have a 6000 and only 1 HDTV. I don't need a second HD receiver. If I get a 921, I have the problem of what to do with the 6000.
2. Most of the programming that I want to record (football games and networks programming) I get OTA. From what I read here, this is where the 921 has the most problems (no reliable EPG, no name-based recording, timer conflicts, etc.). These were supposed to be fixed last summer, but still only promises.
3. Complexity. I know that there a work-arounds for many of the 921 bugs, but my wife doesn't want to have to refer to a trouble-shooting checklist to make sure she can record Desperate Housewives. There also seem to be many issues related to proper installation. (What are the right switches, cables, diplexers, adapters, order of connections, etc. for your configuration of receivers?) If I try to save a few bucks on a group buy, how do I know what other installation hardware I need, and how do I arrange installation?
4. Cost. I can afford a 921, but am still concerned about value. I would not complain about the cost if it were reliable and easy to use. But given the current shortcomings, even $839 + extra installation hardware seems like a lot for what you get, particularly if something better might be available in the near future. Trouble is that no one seems to know what, if any, major improvements will be incorporated into the 942 vs. new bugs and problems.
Now any one of these complaints alone would not be enough to deter me from buying a 921. It's the combination of all of these factors that have me on hold. If new software releases fix the problems related to OTA recording, I would most likely take the plunge. But for now, I'm still watching and waiting.
What advantage does the 921 have over the HD Tivo? The only reason I would have gone with the 921 is because Dish had better HDTV picture quality. Now they have watered down the PQ I can't think of why I would want one.
Possible 921 advantages:
+Speed - HD Tivo is too damn slow
+UHF Remote - Easily fixed on Tivo with 3rd party remote extenders
+International programming - maybe
+RGBHV Output for those that need it
Possible HD Tivo advantages:
+Tivo - season pass, name based recording etc.
+OTA has 2 tuners and works, also has guide info for OTA - What a concept!
+Can easily increase storage to 600 Gig if needed. (supposedly voids warranty)
+More HD Channels, or should I say HDTV Lite channels
+Sunday Ticket for the Football freaks
+Tivo charge is $5 per account not per receiver
+Has HDMI output (when it works)
Common disadvantages:
-HDTV Lite, nothing like watered down HDTV!
-Support people are equally stupid
-$1000 is not cheap
-No easy way to archive to DVHS or Computer
-Commitment is usually required
If you care about Picture Quality Comcast wins in my area
If you care about easy time shifting the HD Tivo wins
Why would I want a 921?
Comcast will soon have a 6412 HD PVR here and then I'll get basic (not Tivo I'm sure) HD time shifting, more HDTV channels and better HDTV picture quality with no commitment. Really, why would I want an HD Tivo or a 921?
Possible 921 advantages:
+Speed - HD Tivo is too damn slow
+UHF Remote - Easily fixed on Tivo with 3rd party remote extenders
+International programming - maybe
+RGBHV Output for those that need it
Possible HD Tivo advantages:
+Tivo - season pass, name based recording etc.
+OTA has 2 tuners and works, also has guide info for OTA - What a concept!
+Can easily increase storage to 600 Gig if needed. (supposedly voids warranty)
+More HD Channels, or should I say HDTV Lite channels
+Sunday Ticket for the Football freaks
+Tivo charge is $5 per account not per receiver
+Has HDMI output (when it works)
Common disadvantages:
-HDTV Lite, nothing like watered down HDTV!
-Support people are equally stupid
-$1000 is not cheap
-No easy way to archive to DVHS or Computer
-Commitment is usually required
If you care about Picture Quality Comcast wins in my area
If you care about easy time shifting the HD Tivo wins
Why would I want a 921?
Comcast will soon have a 6412 HD PVR here and then I'll get basic (not Tivo I'm sure) HD time shifting, more HDTV channels and better HDTV picture quality with no commitment. Really, why would I want an HD Tivo or a 921?
The way 921 software development goes, that could be next summer as well.
(Im joking I know OTA Guide data on the 921 is now in testing)
(Im joking I know OTA Guide data on the 921 is now in testing)
My thoughts:
They discontinued the software platform (aka 721) and moved to the new software (aka 522?) before the 921 was even released! It appeared to me that dish was going to discontinue the 921 before it was even released, that's why I went with the 6000 and decided to wait for the new software driven HD DVR.
They discontinued the software platform (aka 721) and moved to the new software (aka 522?) before the 921 was even released! It appeared to me that dish was going to discontinue the 921 before it was even released, that's why I went with the 6000 and decided to wait for the new software driven HD DVR.
