Dish HD

[bilbravo]

I know that OTA will look better than what I get from satellite or cable, since that stuff is compressed pretty heavily. However, I just recently upgraded from a 30" CRT HDTV to a 40" LCD (Samsung LN40B630). I have the auto-motion plus (Samsung's judder/blur reduction) to Clear (which is the lowest setting) and things look pretty good most of the time.

However I have noticed that in some shows (particulary food network, newer shows too) and TLC I get a lot of bluring/skipping type of scenes on camera pans. I wouldn't call it fast motion, not like NASCAR that I watched on Sunday which looked fine. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with my TV, or if I should expect less-than-stellar video from my ViP612/DishTV in general.

I guess the best way to describe what I'm seeing would be to move your hand really quickly in front of your face at arm's length... I realize that LCD tvs have this type of issue, but it doesn't look like anything I've seen on OTA HD or on friend's TVs (most have HD cable though).

Note that I have TurboHD so I only get "HD" channels (although some do show SD content, but either stretched or with bars).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rob052067]

I don't notice much difference between in PQ on Dish HD channels versus OTA HD Locals.

However I have noticed that in some shows (particulary food network, newer shows too) and TLC I get a lot of bluring/skipping type of scenes on camera pans. I wouldn't call it fast motion, not like NASCAR that I watched on Sunday which looked fine. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with my TV, or if I should expect less-than-stellar video from my ViP612/DishTV in general.

What you are seeing here is older SD programming that has been upscaled or modified for rebroadcast on the new HD channels. Channels such as Food, History, Lifetime, etc., rebroadcast lots of older programs that were not filmed in HD. The clarity of the HD rebroadcast is obviously not as clear as real HD. The camera panning from right to left tends to look like you are viewing the screen through the side of a bottle.

 

[bilbravo]

I don't notice much difference between in PQ on Dish HD channels versus OTA HD Locals.



What you are seeing here is older SD programming that has been upscaled or modified for rebroadcast on the new HD channels. Channels such as Food, History, Lifetime, etc., rebroadcast lots of older programs that were not filmed in HD. The clarity of the HD rebroadcast is obviously not as clear as real HD. The camera panning from right to left tends to look like you are viewing the screen through the side of a bottle.

I have noticed what you're talking about... almost as if it's "stretch-o-vision" but it gets worse at the sides... almost as if it is being stretched more as you get closer to the edges of the image. I also did take notice of the date of the show and have realized I can't see a show from 2005 and use it as a good comparison :-D However, last night my wife was watch one of the Top Chef shows (first airing for this one) and I got some really bad blur on pan from left to right on the faces of the contestants.

It is just odd to me that I can see such a great image in baseball games (obviously not a lot of motion there for 90% of the game) and racing (lots of fast motion) but some pre-recorded television shows just look like crap.

Then I can watch a Blu-ray or play a game and it looks nearly perfect. I'm just trying to determine I guess if what I'm seeing is 1) normal, 2) Dish receiver or 3) bad image processor in the TV.

I guess I still have 10 days to take the TV back so I'm paranoid. Obviously dropping a grand isn't something I do everyday!

 

[allargon]

#1) There is quite a difference in PQ between OTA and Dish's HD channels. The differences are more apparent to various viewers. It also depends on set size, display resolution and viewing distance. Some channels (e.g. HDNet) look better than others (e.g., MavTV).

#2) Calibrate your set.

#3) Stretch-o-vision isn't Dish's or your set's fault. Blame whatever channel you're watching--Lifetime, Cartoon Network, A&E, History, Biography, Food Network, Lifetime Movie Network, HGTV, TBS, TNT, etc.

#4) The skipping on TLC might be your set's fault. However, I would calibrate the set before making any rash decisions.

 

[bilbravo]

#1) There is quite a difference in PQ between OTA and Dish's HD channels. The differences are more apparent to various viewers. It also depends on set size, display resolution and viewing distance. Some channels (e.g. HDNet) look better than others (e.g., MavTV).

#2) Calibrate your set.

#3) Stretch-o-vision isn't Dish's or your set's fault. Blame whatever channel you're watching--Lifetime, Cartoon Network, A&E, History, Biography, Food Network, Lifetime Movie Network, HGTV, TBS, TNT, etc.

#4) The skipping on TLC might be your set's fault. However, I would calibrate the set before making any rash decisions.

Thanks for your suggestions. I looked into a professional calibration but I was thinking about trying my hand with the DVE disc first.

My wife doesn't seem to notice it as much, I wonder if I am just more prone to seeing it.

 

[joewhite57]

Some widescreens have two stretch settings. One is linear to fill screen, while the other is progressive. The progressive stretches less in the center and increases as it approaches the outer edges. This tends to give it a fisheye look.

 

[bilbravo]

Some widescreens have two stretch settings. One is linear to fill screen, while the other is progressive. The progressive stretches less in the center and increases as it approaches the outer edges. This tends to give it a fisheye look.

Fish-eye is a good description of the Food Network shows. My TV is in 16:9 but I'm sure that Food is doing that to their feed before sending it out!

 

[lparsons21]

Thanks for your suggestions. I looked into a professional calibration but I was thinking about trying my hand with the DVE disc first.

My wife doesn't seem to notice it as much, I wonder if I am just more prone to seeing it.

There is something to be said for that. Occasionally some of the movies that SyFy shows, even the ones in HD, will do what you talk about. Or at least I notice it and it irritates me. But my son doesn't see it, I've asked him.

Different eyes and ages I suppose...

Here in my area, one of the stations HD PQ is better than most of the sat provided, but the others are all about the same.

 

[york4311]

It is not your HDTV, it is the show that is on the channel at the time.

I noticed this when I was on Charter Cable, when I got my new Samsung HDTV. Everything was wonderful, unless I turned to TNT and an old episode of Law and Order was playing. Everytime the show panned left or right, it was like it was "stuttering"...a herky jerky motion that drove me nuts.

I thought, great, I bought a LCD that can't process this stuff. But, it wasn't my TV. It is the way that some broadcasting companies compress/encode their shows.

To make yourself feel better, turn to HDNet, or something that you know broadcasts true HD all the time...try ESPN. There you will notice that everything is just fine.

So, relax, and if you feel up to it, send the broadcasters a nasty note telling them...if you want to broadcast HD, then broadcast HD...enough of this stuttering crap!

I've also noticed that some go the "fish eye" route, where the center is clear, but the sides are stretched and when they pan, it takes me back to some good drinking binges in college.

 

[bilbravo]

It is not your HDTV, it is the show that is on the channel at the time.

I noticed this when I was on Charter Cable, when I got my new Samsung HDTV. Everything was wonderful, unless I turned to TNT and an old episode of Law and Order was playing. Everytime the show panned left or right, it was like it was "stuttering"...a herky jerky motion that drove me nuts.

I thought, great, I bought a LCD that can't process this stuff. But, it wasn't my TV. It is the way that some broadcasting companies compress/encode their shows.

To make yourself feel better, turn to HDNet, or something that you know broadcasts true HD all the time...try ESPN. There you will notice that everything is just fine.

So, relax, and if you feel up to it, send the broadcasters a nasty note telling them...if you want to broadcast HD, then broadcast HD...enough of this stuttering crap!

I've also noticed that some go the "fish eye" route, where the center is clear, but the sides are stretched and when they pan, it takes me back to some good drinking binges in college.

"Herky jerky" is the best way to describe this that I've seen. Thank you for your post, that makes me feel better... at least someone has noticed the same thing. I've also noticed that stuff on ESPN (for example, the NASCAR race on Sunday) and nearly everything I watch on FOX and when my wife watches ABC shows, it all looks excellent.

 

[BuddyBoy]

I have seen the phenomenon you describe, but not recently. OTOH, I haven't been watching Food Network live lately, so I can't say whether or not it has returned. In my case the jerky motion only lasted a few hours, then things returned to normal. It kind of looked like an encoder malfunction. If you continue to see the problem the following day, then maybe what you're seeing is different than what I saw. I do record new episodes of Iron Chef America, Throwdown with Bobby Flay, and that new show, "The Best Thing I Ever Ate" or whatever it's called, and I can't say I've seen any problems.

BTW, a non-linear horizontal stretch which increases at the edges of the screen is the definition of stretch-o-vision. A linear stretch, although still ugly, is not considered stretch-o-vision.

 

[DishSubLA]

#1) There is quite a difference in PQ between OTA and Dish's HD channels. The differences are more apparent to various viewers. It also depends on set size, display resolution and viewing distance. Some channels (e.g. HDNet) look better than others (e.g., MavTV).

#2) Calibrate your set.

#3) Stretch-o-vision isn't Dish's or your set's fault. Blame whatever channel you're watching--Lifetime, Cartoon Network, A&E, History, Biography, Food Network, Lifetime Movie Network, HGTV, TBS, TNT, etc.

#4) The skipping on TLC might be your set's fault. However, I would calibrate the set before making any rash decisions.

No. It depends on which DMA you view the HD LIL. I can tell you that in Los Angeles the HD LIL is EXTREMELY close to OTA. Absolutely EXCELLENT. While the Tivo Series 3 has best PQ at OTA, I do not feel in the least cheated watching Dish HD LIL. It is really is that good, on all the HDTV's. In fact the HD LIL is actually a bit better (some Dish processing, no doubt) in that is does not suffer some of the pixelating seen on the direct to TV OTA during fast motion.

But L.A. is a huge market with our DMA having among the highest penetration of satellite in the country. Dish does not want its phone centers clogged with a mere 2% of unhappy L.A. DMA subs complaining about the HD PQ of the local station. It would overload their call centers. The SD LIL's used to among the best, as well.

Instead, Dish really hammers our rural and smaller DMA friends with poor HD LIL PQ because there just aren't that many of you out there to make that big of a difference in the phone system or even in the bottom line.

Dish has never been in a good position when negotiating L.A. LIL and has a mere softball to play with and has had to pay pretty much what they demand, even complaining on one Charlie chat about how much money he had to pay for the carriage of local Fox channel KTTV, Los Angeles. Meanwhile he plays hardball with those less than major market DMA's.

It's all about the #### numbers.

 

[FitzAusTex]

And to add to this, I get Dish Dallas Locals, which generally look better than a few of my actual OTA Austin Locals. So it really does depend on your DMA.