DISH Network II

[M Sparks]

OK, I don't hang on this board like I used to, but I haven't seen much (any?) discussion about this announcement Scott posted about DISH starting a parallel MPEG-4 service. Even in the thread he posted it in, it wasn't really commented on much, at least in the first couple days- everyone was just talking about the minor changes in the DVR Advantage plan.

What's the deal? I can't even find that thread now, you'd think it would be stickied. Did I just misunderstand it? This seems like it should have been a bombshell, and no one seems to care.

I realize that there probably just aren't enough details to discuss, but there was a time when this board would have been overrun with speculation.

 

[gadgtfreek]

There are many changes going on:

Voom going all Mpeg4 8-15

If you read the uplink report every week youll see they are shuffling around

AMC14 is scheduled for launch in December and E11 is RUMORED for Oct on Sea Launch.

They have also reduced PQ slightly on the HD channels while moving them around. Scott says they are working to provide the best pq possible.

 

[mike123abc]

There has been a lot of speculation in many threads, but no consolodated thread since there is no real information. My current theory is E11 frees up E8 at 110. E8 and E6 go be buddies like they used to be at 97 and AMC-14 launches to 86.5. This gives them the start of the new system with a satellite able to have 25 LiL down links in spot beams, and 2 satellite slots able to be recieved with a Dish500 type dish (maybe not exactly current Dish500 since 10.5 degrees apart, not 9).

The base system can be grown with new spot beam satellites to get to the capacity mentioned by Charlie in his presentation.

But, of course since Dish has not said anything more about it, it is all just random rumors and speculation until we see some filings with the FCC to move some satellites.

 

[tnsprin]

There has been a lot of speculation in many threads, but no consolodated thread since there is no real information. My current theory is E11 frees up E8 at 110. E8 and E6 go be buddies like they used to be at 97 and AMC-14 launches to 86.5. This gives them the start of the new system with a satellite able to have 25 LiL down links in spot beams, and 2 satellite slots able to be recieved with a Dish500 type dish (maybe not exactly current Dish500 since 10.5 degrees apart, not 9).

The base system can be grown with new spot beam satellites to get to the capacity mentioned by Charlie in his presentation.

But, of course since Dish has not said anything more about it, it is all just random rumors and speculation until we see some filings with the FCC to move some satellites.

Although details are missing, it was announced to the public in the Charlie Chat in June.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The only place this was mentioned was here, other sites wouldnt touch the info I posted with a 10 foot pole.

It wasn't until the June Charlie Chat where he officially announced it to the public.

Here is what I know... look for a major announcement at CES.

Thats all I can say.

 

[gadgtfreek]

The only place this was mentioned was here, other sites wouldnt touch the info I posted with a 10 foot pole.

It wasn't until the June Charlie Chat where he officially announced it to the public.

Here is what I know... look for a major announcement at CES.

Thats all I can say.

Too bad we have to wait till Jan

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Im sure if they could click there heels together the satellites needed would already be in space and ready for use.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Oh I know, I have faith that they are planning something good. Just hate I have to wait to hear what it is . Im impatient

Ya know, it does amaze me the amount of time involved in ordering and launching a sat.

 

[JAG72]

The only nice thing is while we are waiting they are already working on getting some more space available for additional HD. It is one thing to have to wait and know that you will be getting nothing soon and knowing that they will be able to add some as they become available.

 

[kstuart]

Oh I know, I have faith that they are planning something good. Just hate I have to wait to hear what it is . Im impatient

Ya know, it does amaze me the amount of time involved in ordering and launching a sat.

I takes a lot longer than this to order and launch a satellite. EchoStar undoubtedly is using satellites that were originally ordered for other purposes (backup, etc.).

 

[pdxsam]

It's been said before, the most pressing issue right now is the dying 129 bird. I hope that some plan is in place to shuttle a freed up bird to 129 temporarily till the new Ciel bird can get up there next year.

 

[Stan Sherman]

If this is the new plan (2 new HD sat locations) their won't be a need for 129 after conversion. At least I hope this to be the case!

 

[guerra]

Yes, it takes FOREVER to build a satellite and launch it into space before it's ready. My mom came home and said she was working on a directv satellite that was nearing completion (the one that just launched I believe). She has also started on another echostar satellite for Dish. Cool huh? Now if only we could get a discount with either Dish or DTV since she works for the company who makes them..

Anyway, I'm just as impatient like everyone else! Ahhh, the pain!

 

[gadgtfreek]

I takes a lot longer than this to order and launch a satellite. EchoStar undoubtedly is using satellites that were originally ordered for other purposes (backup, etc.).

E11 is theirs(I think). AMC14 is 100% Leased.

What I meant by that statement was, I would figure in this day and age you could build and launch a sat pretty fast. But that is not the case.

 

[RedSavina]

From all that I've read, I understand the the MPEG4-only service (at whatever location) will go a long ways towards consolidating programming on just two satellites.

What I would like to know is what might happen in the interim.

For example, I read (in an uplink thread?) speculation that E* was shifting things around to permit moving some 129W programming to the 110/119 slot. The opportunity to do so comes through bandwidth savings with conversion of HD to MPEG4.

Is there any validity to this? How likely are we to see some of the 129W HD stuff move to the core 110/119 slot? As excited as I am with this prospect, the returns seem to be somewhat limited. It sure would be nice to "wean" as many people as possible off needing 129W - especially those like myself who are trying to pull the signal in from outside the official signal footprint.

Of course this is all short-term: Count on me being an early adopter of the new service!

 

[mike123abc]

2 full DBS slots is 64 Transponders of capacity. 64 X 6 channels MPEG-4 HD is 384 channels of HD.

There is a severe LiL HD capacity shortage. The downlink of E8 is 25 TPs. Even assuming they can use all 25TPs (i.e. not pointing to no where because they are at 97 instead of 110) is 150 channels. E8 takes 5 national TPs for LiL.

So, as estimated at they will have capacity for 359 national and 150 locals at most. Of course you some channels for all the things like music channels, program guide, etc.

There are 1500 local channels, a huge amount of spot capacity will be needed. Yes they can have more markets on national TPs until more spot capacity is added, because there are not enough national HD channels yet to fill up the system.

I would estimate the final system would use 20-24 TPs for LiL HD. Leaving about 40 TPs for national HD. So, it could be 200-240 HD national channels in the end.

 

[rad]

2 full DBS slots is 64 Transponders of capacity. 64 X 6 channels MPEG-4 HD is 384 channels of HD.

There is a severe LiL HD capacity shortage. The downlink of E8 is 25 TPs. Even assuming they can use all 25TPs (i.e. not pointing to no where because they are at 97 instead of 110) is 150 channels. E8 takes 5 national TPs for LiL.

So, as estimated at they will have capacity for 359 national and 150 locals at most. Of course you some channels for all the things like music channels, program guide, etc.

There are 1500 local channels, a huge amount of spot capacity will be needed. Yes they can have more markets on national TPs until more spot capacity is added, because there are not enough national HD channels yet to fill up the system.

I would estimate the final system would use 20-24 TPs for LiL HD. Leaving about 40 TPs for national HD. So, it could be 200-240 HD national channels in the end.

According to Scott's notes that he posted from Team Summit, Charlie said the new MPEG4 system would have the capacity for:

200 LIL Cities in Standard Definion
HD Locals to 100 Cities
200 National HD Channels
1000 Standard Definition Channels
200 International Channels.

I think you need to go back and redo your numbers based on also carrying all those additional SD channels that weren't in your computations.

 

[JAG72]

One main concern that I have is how can Dish compete with Directv on this plan. Directv is going to have 4 SAT's up there just for there MPEG4 offerings. How does Dish plan to compete with the capacity that Directv will offer with just these 2?

 

[mike123abc]

According to Scott's notes that he posted from Team Summit, Charlie said the new MPEG4 system would have the capacity for:

200 LIL Cities in Standard Definion
HD Locals to 100 Cities
200 National HD Channels
1000 Standard Definition Channels
200 International Channels.

I think you need to go back and redo your numbers based on also carrying all those additional SD channels that weren't in your computations.

It still points to needing a ton more spot beam capacity than they will have initially. 100 cities in HD based on how they are doing it now would take 100TPs. 25 on E8 is not going to cut it. The numbers that Charlie put out most likely are what they plan to grow the system to, not what it will initially be. He also mentioned that they have 6 or so satellites under construction. How many are going to go into this system? I do not see how they are going to have the capacity claimed by Charlie in any way shape or form by the end of the year.

I suspect it will start out at the top 50 cities in HD, 25 on spots, 25 on conus, the rest of the TPs carrying standard definition, and what HD is available. A couple of satellites like E10 being launched to the new system will give them the LiL capacity mentioned.

 

[mdwatt]

One main concern that I have is how can Dish compete with Directv on this plan. Directv is going to have 4 SAT's up there just for there MPEG4 offerings. How does Dish plan to compete with the capacity that Directv will offer with just these 2?

It won't matter. There aren't enough nationaly broadcast HD channels (or even locals) available now or anywhere in the near future to max out the bandwidth that these 2 sats from DISH will provide. Per the data that Scott provided, there is the capapcity on those 2 sats for over 1700 different channels. If Direct needs 4 sats to do that, then that means one of two things - 1. they aren't truly broadcasting in MPEG-4, or 2. They're capturing and rebroadcasting the Martian All-Day Polka Dance Fest on E.T. TV., channel 6969. So unless Direct starts farting channels out of their ass that nobody has heard of yet, I wouldn't worry about it.