Dish "Professional Installation" Rant

[bigthrust]

I have always made sure I was there with the installer and eyeballed his every move. I have even chipped in and helped. Trick is to become friends with your installer, but making sure he knows you want it done right.

 

[Hall]

When today (January 3, 2007) came around, the Dish installer came knocking on my door at around 7:50 AM ready to install my new Dish 1000 and ViP622. This is when things go south. I had my dad stay at the house while the Dish installer was doing his install and I left for work (and didn’t find out about any of this until tonight after getting home).

You left out the part where you walked him through the house showing him your work and how you wanted things done as well as leaving your written instructions to him.

 

[bhelms]

When I went to HD I wanted an installer to do the work since most of that was new to me. Prior to that and ever since I have done all my own installations, mostly because I wanted to maintain my own standards and I enjoy the work. When the installer was there, it became an instant "partnership". I helped pull wire, hold tools, etc., as an excuse to be looking over his shoulder. He was smart enough to pick-up on my motive and several times asked if what he was planning to do was OK with me. The end result was a very reasonable job, not perfect, but close enough that I only needed to do a small amount of "clean-up" after he left, the "anal" parts. He also took care of a few tidbits outside of the requirement perhaps in return for my help, like replacing a few connectors on my OTA system. (I had no experience with compression fittings prior to that.)

It's a bit unfair to say that no one does quality work anymore, or doesn't take pride in their craftsmanship. To be sure, there are plenty of hackers out there. But in general I believe most experienced installers know what constitutes a "quality" job. The problem is, we customers all have our own definition of "quality" and we can't expect the installer to be a mind reader. Granted, if he arrives on site and the pre-work that has been done is neat and exact, that should raise a flag that perhaps the owner subscribes to a higher standard and the installer would be wise to respect that. But there are other factors that are equally important to the installer, like meeting his day's quota and material cost limitations. And to be sure, to many customers most of what he did would probably have been OK (notwithstanding his failure to install the proper injectors or check-out the system - absolutely NO excuse for that!)

If this were me, I would have arranged to be there to assist and make sure the installer was following my plan...

 

[RandallA]

"The problem is, we subs all have our own definition of "quality" and we can't expect the installer to be a mind reader."

:up I couldn't agree with you more. The OP should've stayed home and at least let the installer know how he wanted things done.

 

[ZandarKoad]

I have always made sure I was there with the installer and eyeballed his every move. I have even chipped in and helped. Trick is to become friends with your installer, but making sure he knows you want it done right.

Haha, it may sound frigid, but the last thing I want is to become friends with the customer. Because when there is a friendship, then the customer feels they can ask things that are above and beyond the normal requirements for an installation. I'm stone cold with every customer. I'm very communicative for the site survey (sometimes I have to twist their arm to get them to walk around the job site with me), and after they've given me all the information I need to do the installation to their specifications, I'd just prefer that they STAY THE HECK OUT OF MY WAY and let me work. It's so frustrating when a guy is constantly trying to make conversation with you while you're working.

Of course, as a customer, the first thing I'd want is to be 'buddy-buddy' with the installer... for the very same reasons as I hate it as an INSTALLER!

 

[Drone35]

Bottom line is that he should have had a professional install and seems he didn't get it! I would be pissed and to top it off he took his cable he already installed with him. I would be giving Dish a call and be plenty pissed and have them send another installer to get the job done right or they could get the sh*t off my house!

 

[webbydude]

Haha, it may sound frigid, but the last thing I want is to become friends with the customer. Because when there is a friendship, then the customer feels they can ask things that are above and beyond the normal requirements for an installation. I'm stone cold with every customer. I'm very communicative for the site survey (sometimes I have to twist their arm to get them to walk around the job site with me), and after they've given me all the information I need to do the installation to their specifications, I'd just prefer that they STAY THE HECK OUT OF MY WAY and let me work. It's so frustrating when a guy is constantly trying to make conversation with you while you're working.

Of course, as a customer, the first thing I'd want is to be 'buddy-buddy' with the installer... for the very same reasons as I hate it as an INSTALLER!

Thank-you! You pretty much summed up how I handle most of my installs. For the most part, this is pretty much the routine I follow with EVERY install. I prefer the so-called MAIN decision maker to be on the premises when I do the walk-thru. After I'm done describing what's involved and how it will be done I then will ask if there are any questions relating to the actual install. If not...then stay the hell out of the way. At least until I'm ready to go over the operation of the receivers.

It's difficult, but I do my best to stay out of the way if I have any sort of work done at my home. Whether it's phone/dsl or even a plumber or electrician. Seems a tad hypocritical otherwise.

Bottom line is that he should have had a professional install and seems he didn't get it! I would be pissed and to top it off he took his cable he already installed with him. I would be giving Dish a call and be plenty pissed and have them send another installer to get the job done right or they could get the sh*t off my house!

Without any feedback from the customer, I think I probably would've done the same thing as the installer; minus the diagonal cable runs. Too many times a customer will bitch and moan that installer did NOT take the excess cable. In the installers defense, I probably would've done the same thing as well. And let's face it, he didn't "steal" the cable. Why would he? Hell, most of us have more than enough access to any amounts of cable we want...for free!!!l

 

[dishcomm]

I am a long time off and on forum visitor, recent member (yesterday) and first time poster. I just had to post somewhere about my extreme frustration with Dish network / their installers that I had to rant somewhere and maybe inform others of what could be their next install…

I called Dish Network on December 28, 2006 and asked them to give me the “Dishin it Up” promotion where I could add HD channels to my account and get a ViP622 HD DVR for $199.99 with free installation. I had the “America’s Top 180” channel package with two Dish “legacy” MPEG2 decoders that I bought years ago and decided that I wanted to go with a four-room, three-tuner box installation (my two legacy tuners for downstairs and the ViP622 to power my HDTV upstairs and my other standard definition TV in another room with the “Dish HD Gold” channel package.

I was told I would have to pay an additional $6.00 for the HD receiver and another $5.95 for a DVR fee -- but was told if I upgraded to the Dish HD Platnium package that I could waive the $5.95 DVR fee. I always wanted premium channels but never got them so I accepted their Platnium package deal. We set up an installation for today (January 3, 2007) between 8:30 AM and 12:30 PM.

I decided I better get to work pulling coax cables through my walls because I am VERY particular about how things are done (part of why I am posting this I guess). I did a little research and found out that the Dish ViP622 required two satellite feeds and one feed to the second TV.

I crawled through the ceiling above my porch pulling cut sheets of plywood to lie on top of the rafters as I went to pull three RG6 coaxial cables behind me (and CAT5 for network too) to put into an exterior wall with an “old work” low voltage box with a nice keystone jack box that I could put my three coax lines with my network and phone line in.

After pulling cable to two upstairs rooms, through my garage attic with no floor, again pulling plywood around laying it down so I didn’t fall through the drywall on the underside of it, running and mounting PVC conduit down the garage wall to the basement for my wires to go in and feeding them into the basement with PLENTY of extra cable to spare, and pulling my two new downstairs coaxial runs with the “old work” boxes in the walls where I wanted them I said I am done.

When today (January 3, 2007) came around, the Dish installer came knocking on my door at around 7:50 AM ready to install my new Dish 1000 and ViP622. This is when things go south. I had my dad stay at the house while the Dish installer was doing his install and I left for work (and didn’t find out about any of this until tonight after getting home).

After all my hard meticulous work, he, in my opinion, botched my cable install in the basement cutting a good 20’ off each coax cable not leaving me ANY spare cable (no O loop worth of cable or ANYTHING). All four coax wires were pulled to a central location for him to mount a DP43 switch to the beam in a nice dry location with PLENTY of slack left.

When he installed the DP43 and cutting all my spare coax off within one inch or so of slack left in the line (if that) and ran the cables all crooked and not even attached to anything (not even along the wall and up the beam like I ran my two downstairs coax wires) that were in a nice line with wire hangers. Some of the cables were run wrapped over the beam with the DP43 on it, some were under the beam. None were consistent it didn’t seem.

During the entire install, he had to drill a total of one hole and that was when he pulled the three lines from the Dish 1000 to the multiswitch, drilling a hole through the foundation band board into the basement and had to run about a total of 15’ of cable from the dish to the multiswitch. Again, he ran the cables crooked with absolutely no slack whatsoever and didn’t take the time to make it look nice.

So maybe up to this point I am a bit anal about my basement and wiring in general? I don’t know but I take pride in my work and I am very particular about the way things are done.

It doesn’t stop there. The work order called for two power injectors to help power the new multiswitch and new Dish 1000 LNB modules because we were keeping two legacy receivers. He claimed the work order didn’t say anything about them therefore he didn’t have any to install to make our two downstairs TVs work (one in the kitchen and one in the living room). Fantastic… One of the most watched TVs in the house doesn’t work!

After that fiasco I go check out my new ViP622 to see how killer the Dish HD channels look on my Sony 46” LCD TV. I left him a brand new Monster Cable HDMI cable which he used to hook up to my TV (which he did correctly) and that looked all OK. Here is the kicker on my new HDTV setup. IT DIDN’T WORK!

I called Dish technical support and they had me run diagnostics on it. Come to find out I am not getting a signal from the 110 satellite OR the 129 satellite – only the 119 and to complain about the power injectors for my legacy receivers. The CSR pulled up the work order and confirmed that the injectors were in fact on the work order and the installer goofed by not having them trying to pass the buck off on Dish screwing up the order.

So now I don’t have half my standard definition, any local channels and no high definition channels to watch on the two TVs that at least get some sort of satellite picture and NO service on two of my other TVs.

I later found out that the technician wouldn’t make a longer cable for the existing television we had as the RG6 from the wall to the tuner was pulled tight. He said that “I can’t do that because it is existing work and they monitor our cable usage and we have to account for it). ARGH what about the 50+ feet you cut off and (took with you when you left AKA stole) that was MY RG6 that I bought at Home Depot?!

Basically, I am just so frustrated that I am tempted to tell them I want my money back and for them to remove all their equipment – I am going with DirecTV or Time Warner Cable. How does this happen? How can someone be so careless to do a crap install where 50% of the TVs work and the other 50% that DO sort of work, get 50% of the total channels? Now I am without 75% functionality on my one main TV for several more days.

Come on Dish! This is ridiculous. Maybe I am asking too much? Lesson of the story is if you want something done right you gotta do it yourself... Unfortunately for me, Dish required a "Professional" to install this unit. Some professional installation I got!

What a nightmare....
Pardon the hindsight, but if it was important enough that the job be done to your exacting specifications you should have practiced due diligence and made it a point to be on site during the work process..I am not excusing the apparently shoddy work and the fact that the tech left the job incomplete..
Persoanlly, if came upon a job where a customer did all the work pulling cables and such I would have tipped THEM!

 

[dishcomm]

You shouldn't have to watch them. They've been trained to do a professional job and if they can't do it they should be fired!

Good point..
However, I don't like customers hovering over me..But if they have special requests like this gentleman did, I prefer they be on site to at least explain what they want..

 

[netnerdvana]

In response to the initial poster of this thread....

Now I know why I buy my own equipment and install it myself!!!! It would scare the living hell out of me to hand over such a complicated setup and install to someone that would have trouble graduating out of high school and/or could not give a flying rats ass.

 

[dishcomm]

When I went to HD I wanted an installer to do the work since most of that was new to me. Prior to that and ever since I have done all my own installations, mostly because I wanted to maintain my own standards and I enjoy the work. When the installer was there, it became an instant "partnership". I helped pull wire, hold tools, etc., as an excuse to be looking over his shoulder. He was smart enough to pick-up on my motive and several times asked if what he was planning to do was OK with me. The end result was a very reasonable job, not perfect, but close enough that I only needed to do a small amount of "clean-up" after he left, the "anal" parts. He also took care of a few tidbits outside of the requirement perhaps in return for my help, like replacing a few connectors on my OTA system. (I had no experience with compression fittings prior to that.)

It's a bit unfair to say that no one does quality work anymore, or doesn't take pride in their craftsmanship. To be sure, there are plenty of hackers out there. But in general I believe most experienced installers know what constitutes a "quality" job. The problem is, we customers all have our own definition of "quality" and we can't expect the installer to be a mind reader. Granted, if he arrives on site and the pre-work that has been done is neat and exact, that should raise a flag that perhaps the owner subscribes to a higher standard and the installer would be wise to respect that. But there are other factors that are equally important to the installer, like meeting his day's quota and material cost limitations. And to be sure, to many customers most of what he did would probably have been OK (notwithstanding his failure to install the proper injectors or check-out the system - absolutely NO excuse for that!)

If this were me, I would have arranged to be there to assist and make sure the installer was following my plan...

I get customers like yourself.They want to chip in and help out. Depends on th eindividula..If they are nice but a pain in the rear I iwl ask them to sit back and enjoy the view..If they are handy and seem llike they are eager to learn, which helps them learn more about what's being installed in their home, I say rollup your sleeves..I usually feel a bit guilty about getting any kind of help. That's because I look at things in a worst case scenario. I say "geez that would have been a tough job without this guy's help"..Then I think I didn't earn my pay....
So ususally I turn down the offer for help..It's my resonsibilty to do the job and I want to do it myself..To use a golf analogy.. If I have a 12" gimmie putt for birdie for par and my partner says "it's good", I will putt it anyway just to know that I holed out legitimately..Stupid I guess. And a bit anal..Oh well,....

 

[dishcomm]

The biggest myth in society is that people are generally competent.

The number of people who can install a multi-satellite, multi-room HD system is less than the number of people who are needed to do it.

The number of people who can answer questions about that same equipment is less than the number of phone CS reps who are needed.

Note that Stanley Kubrick used to check all the plane reservations that were made by his aides...

That's very cynical view of the world. Farbeit for me to deny your right to that view..
I believe there are plenty of competent people. The problem is the two or three of ten idiots make us think that most people are dimwitted pea brains who can't walk and chew gum without govt assistance

 

[dishcomm]

Haha, it may sound frigid, but the last thing I want is to become friends with the customer. Because when there is a friendship, then the customer feels they can ask things that are above and beyond the normal requirements for an installation. I'm stone cold with every customer. I'm very communicative for the site survey (sometimes I have to twist their arm to get them to walk around the job site with me), and after they've given me all the information I need to do the installation to their specifications, I'd just prefer that they STAY THE HECK OUT OF MY WAY and let me work. It's so frustrating when a guy is constantly trying to make conversation with you while you're working.

Of course, as a customer, the first thing I'd want is to be 'buddy-buddy' with the installer... for the very same reasons as I hate it as an INSTALLER!

I am with you n this to a certain extent..I want my customers to be comfroatble with my presence in their home..I have found that once I have established this repore, the customer usually leaves me to my work. Except maybe to offer a cup of coffee or a sandwich...Which I might add, I get those offers quite regularly..
One way to keep customers form yakking away my time is to NOT wear a watch..This way if "Chatty Cathy" won't shut up I simply ask them what time it is..Then I always react with that deer in the headlights sense of urgency and exclaim that I am running late..Instantly the customer is fawning all over me, apologizing for holding me up. They then shut up and get out of the way...Works like a charm...
Oh yeah....Rule number one, never become friends with a cusomer..I have been offered free rounds of golf, football tix, asked over for cookouts, ect..Turn 'em all down..Why? Because most people think if they provide these little perks the recipient owes them something.That last thing I want is some guy calling me every 5 mins asking me how to use his DVR...No thanks..I'll pay for my golf, thank you.

 

[ts7]

I get customers like yourself.They want to chip in and help out. Depends on th eindividula..If they are nice but a pain in the rear I iwl ask them to sit back and enjoy the view..If they are handy and seem llike they are eager to learn, which helps them learn more about what's being installed in their home, I say rollup your sleeves..I usually feel a bit guilty about getting any kind of help. That's because I look at things in a worst case scenario. I say "geez that would have been a tough job without this guy's help"..Then I think I didn't earn my pay....
So ususally I turn down the offer for help..It's my resonsibilty to do the job and I want to do it myself..To use a golf analogy.. If I have a 12" gimmie putt for birdie for par and my partner says "it's good", I will putt it anyway just to know that I holed out legitimately..Stupid I guess. And a bit anal..Oh well,....

Hourly Rates:

$50/hour
$75/hour if you watch
$100/hour if you "help"

 

[dishcomm]

Hourly Rates:

$50/hour
$75/hour if you watch
$100/hour if you "help"

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK Mr wise guy..Now you've done it...Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk,,,LOL!!!!!