Distant Network Shutoff on December 1st?

[robertlc]

Here is the letter I'm sending to the president of the NAB.

They don't list his email address on the site, but using some logic based on some other emails listed, I believe it is: drehr@nab.org.

I know the letter will not get my DNS back... but it gives me some closure to this multi-year issue.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David K. Rehr,
President & CEO
NAB

I am very disappointed in the NAB’s stance against EchoStar regarding distant signal regulation.

Since EchoStar has lost the right to broadcast distant signals, I have also lost my ability to view ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox. I am grandfathered to legally receive distant signals from New York and Los Angeles (and have been enjoying those distinct channels for over seven years), but being that SHVIA is non-portable, I will lose that status.

Personally, I do not want to be forced to watch Green Bay network television (I live in Fond du Lac, WI). As a former broadcaster myself, I have no desire to watch small/medium market television. Local TV holds no value for me and as for local news; I can get all I want for free on the internet.

Adding artificial constraints on what I can and cannot watch protects an archaic form of retransmission and amounts to nothing more than a futile attempt to protect the interests of a few broadcasters.

Today’s technology allows me to view any station from anywhere in the world, but the ‘law’ says that I can only view the closest station to my home, and for what purpose?

As the lawsuits fly to protect this archaic form of broadcast television, I’ll be streaming “Lost” legally and free from ABC.com. CBS and NBC also offer many prime-time shows on-line. Progress cannot be stopped and the local affiliates cannot be protected forever.

As streaming television shows are becoming more and more viable… will the NAB try to stop that too?

Plain and simple, if I lose my distant signals, NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX will go unwatched in my household… I’ll stay with the non-broadcast channels.

The good news is that of my family’s (demos: 38 year old male, 38 year old female, 9 year old male, 6 year old female, and 4 year old male) viewership of broadcast television currently only makes up about 15% of our total viewership... and thanks in part to you, it will soon be 0%.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

:clap

Very well said.

 

[robertlc]

I live in Long Beach, MS. As of last night, I hadn't lost my DNS yet. Didn't check this morning. Will check when I go home for lunch.

We live just a mile or so East of the New Orleans DMA. We're well outside the Mobile DMA. In fact, we live almost exactly between New Orleans and Mobile.

We have no local CBS or NBC stations. In fact, the cable company provides CBS and NBC from both markets if I remember right. We received waivers several years ago from the affiliates of both cities so we could get the networks on Dish.

Since we live just East of the New Orleans DMA, we can't get local channels from there through DirecTV, though if we lived just across the Bay of St. Louis, we could.

I talked to a Dish CSR two nights ago. He said it didn't appear we lived in any DMA. WTH???

Does anybody have any clue when DMA 158, I think it is (Gulfport-Biloxi) might be picked up and included in local channels?

Checked with the cable company yesterday, for only $3 more a month than what we're spending on cable Internet and satellite, we could get everything we're currently getting on satellite on cable. And that's with a DVR.

Might have to go to that if it comes to it.

So, any idea on local channels?

 

[BobMurdoch]

Thanks, but since Fox was the only hold-out on the settlement from E, and since Direct and Fox are both owned by the same guy... it will be a cold day in hell before Direct gets my business.

Ditto. This fails the stink test.

Maybe there is hope..... The NFL Network and DirecTV are being grilled by Congress over the Thursday night games coming up (including the abnormally high carriage rates the NFL Network is demanding), as well as DirecTVs' Sunday Ticket monopoly, um sorry, EXCLUSIVE.

At least TV programming is being discussed. Hopefully a million disgruntled E* customers can rattle a few cages.... (like the white bunny with the number 8 on it in a Lost episode from earlier this season?)

 

[MikeF]

What gripes me ( more like pi**es me off to no end) is this. Before I ever thought about dropping the $$ on my 622 I talked to E* as to whether I would lose my KC locals, which I had received since signing up with E* or would I have to switch to Topeka locals which are not HD and HD is nowhere in sight. I was assured by E* that I would be able to stay where I was so I in turn dropped the $$ on the 622, extended my committment for 18 months and committed to the HD pack, which I can take or leave. I did all of this just for the HD locals. As late as Oct. 10 I was still being assured by **** in Executive Communications that I would be able to stay with KC if I so chose. Last Friday I emailed him again when we started receiving the phone calls that 12/1 was the cutoff date and he now tells me sorry for the confusion but I will lose the KC stations and then blames to injunction for it. I returned him an email stating my dissatisfaction with E* and their failure to live up to their committment to me. I also stated I thought I should be refunded the $$ I had spent to upgrade to the 622, as it will now be useless to me with no HD stations. And I thought that my 18 month committment should now be considered fullfilled and I should be able to cancel the HD pack if I so chose. I told him I felt I had lived up to my committment but they had not done the same. I do not think Customers should have to pay the price for E*'s bad, and illegal, business practices. Needless to say, I have not received a response, good, bad, or indifferent. I had expected more from that level of the company.

 

[Greg Bimson]

Thanks, but since Fox was the only hold-out on the settlement from E, and since Direct and Fox are both owned by the same guy... it will be a cold day in hell before Direct gets my business.

Ditto. This fails the stink test.

I have seen srbond's thoughts on the matter.

So, because Fox was the only holdout, does this mean Fox will no longer get your business? Or will you be hypocritical and continue to watch?

And, those exact same affiliate boards, the ones which originally asked for the injunction, the same hypocritical ones that accepted the $100 million bribe, who are now arguing that Dish Network must terminated all distant network feeds by 1 December, will they also continue to get your business?

I mean, if one belabors a point that simply because FOX Network (which objected to the settlement) and their subsidiaries will no longer be a consideration for your business because of their "objection", then one should not belabor the point to stop giving business to any of the people that "objected"?

 

[bacchus101]

I like watching the Fox "News" Channel now and then. Nothing like watching the Saturday Night Live of News. It is just an ongoing comedy sketch....right?

 

[ThomasRz]

I don't think that's what he said. If MKE is SV for you, there has been no legal barrier to E* offering them. Charlie simply chose not to. It has nothing to do with whether or not MKE has LIL. Theoretically if 10 ABC stations were SV, you could have LIL and SV for 11 ABC signals. You could even have had SV w/o LIL if the local guys gave you a waiver for just 10 ABC signals. Of course this discussion moots in 16 days.

I'm leaning towards Ice's statement, that it is a legality that they cannot offer me Milwaukee, since they do carry those locals as well.

 

[ThomasRz]

Well maybe for YOUR area, but there ARE some areas right NOW where E* IS carrying 2 of the same networks from 2 different areas...

In the Terre Haute area I just told you about, they ALSO carry a 2nd NBC from Indy as well, even though there is ALREADY a local NBC in TH.

But this is SV and was already up as an Indy LIL.

In some parts of the Baton Rouge, LA DMA, they carry ALL 4 of main NETS from the Jackson, MS PLUS the carry a 2nd PBS & MYTV affilate from Jackson as well. This in spite of the fact Baton Rouge ALREADY has actual locals for ALL of these networks carried as well - so parts of the Jackson DMA gets TWO of pretty much everything!

This was the result of a special provision in the law for this area (similar to the WMUR (NH) special treatment, another one in Oregon and one more that I forget). These anomalies would not exist under the general provisions of law.

In parts of the Baltimore DMA, they ALSO get ABC, CBS & NBC all from Washington DC, - of course you realize Baltimore has these same networks as well.

Again, SV - bye bye on 12/1. Although if anything gets Congress to act this will (for obvious reasons).

So I stand by my original statement, INCLUDING the part about it being a moot point after 12/1.

This is correct.

You can see ALL the SV areas right here:
http://ekb.dbstalk.com/19

And that's the truth....

 

[srbond]

I have seen srbond's thoughts on the matter.

So, because Fox was the only holdout, does this mean Fox will no longer get your business? Or will you be hypocritical and continue to watch?

And, those exact same affiliate boards, the ones which originally asked for the injunction, the same hypocritical ones that accepted the $100 million bribe, who are now arguing that Dish Network must terminated all distant network feeds by 1 December, will they also continue to get your business?

I mean, if one belabors a point that simply because FOX Network (which objected to the settlement) and their subsidiaries will no longer be a consideration for your business because of their "objection", then one should not belabor the point to stop giving business to any of the people that "objected"?

Since I lost my DNS, it appears that neither Fox, NBC, CBS, or ABC will be getting 'my business'.

 

[BobMurdoch]

I have seen srbond's thoughts on the matter.

So, because Fox was the only holdout, does this mean Fox will no longer get your business? Or will you be hypocritical and continue to watch?

And, those exact same affiliate boards, the ones which originally asked for the injunction, the same hypocritical ones that accepted the $100 million bribe, who are now arguing that Dish Network must terminated all distant network feeds by 1 December, will they also continue to get your business?

I mean, if one belabors a point that simply because FOX Network (which objected to the settlement) and their subsidiaries will no longer be a consideration for your business because of their "objection", then one should not belabor the point to stop giving business to any of the people that "objected"?

Actually I am boycotting up to a point. I have refused to watch any new shows they have premiered, and are only watching some of the return shows like NFL football and Family Guy. I'll probably watch 24 and American Idol (my wife is a big fan of it, so I wind up watching it). But that's it.

 

[mikew]

Actually I am boycotting up to a point. I have refused to watch any new shows they have premiered, and are only watching some of the return shows like NFL football and Family Guy. I'll probably watch 24 and American Idol (my wife is a big fan of it, so I wind up watching it). But that's it.

Reminds me of Steve Martin in "The Jerk". Leaving his million dollar home saying "I don't need anything...except this lamp...and this table...and this can opener and this...."

 

[BobMurdoch]

As long as I get to keep Bernadette Peters, in her prime, as well....

 

[mikew]

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/103013.html

She'll be on Law and Order SVU on 11/28. Doesn't look too bad 25 years later...

 

[rdinkel]

House Not Home for EchoStar

By Ted Hearn, STAFF
(Multichannel News) _ The House adjourned Wednesday until Dec. 5, ensuring that Congress won't disturb the court injunction http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6389696.html that requires EchoStar Communications to cut off distant network signals to 850,000 customers.

A federal court ordered EchoStar to stop selling distant feeds of ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox programming after determining that EchoStar had broken copyright law by selling the channels to hundreds of thousands of legally ineligible subscribers.

The Senate is expected to adjourn Thursday or Friday and not resume the lame-duck session until Dec. 5.



Congress could come to EchoStar's rescue if enough disconnected subscribers put heat on their lawmakers. Distant network programming is popular because it provides rural viewers with access to network affiliates in New York and Los Angeles. Benefits include out-of-market sporting events and time-shifted primetime and late-night network fare.

It's not clear whether EchoStar customers will rebel and create a fuss on Capitol Hill. Since EchoStar provides local TV stations in 170 markets, many of those cut off from distant network signals would be losing a convenience, not a necessity.

In a letter to House colleagues Wednesday, Rep. Chris Cannon (R-Utah) said EchoStar shouldn't be rewarded for its "blatant disregard" of copyright law and shouldn't be allowed "to use its customers as human shields in the debate on the legality of its operations."

On Thursday, Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) and Wayne Allard (R-Colo.) are planning to introduce a bill that would assist EchoStar in the dispute, Leahy spokesman David Carle said Wednesday. In January, Leahy becomes chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Copyright The Associated Press 2006. All Rights Reserved

 

[Malamute]

Hey howdy,
I am one those guys that's getting royally screwed by this distant network problem. I live in the Upper peninsula of Michigan and basically the entire area is white zone. This isnt just a small area... it takes 4 hours to drive through our 'white zone'. So alot of people will be affected by this in our area. We have no local channels in our area and NBC is considered zone B i do believe...( can 'supposedly' get on antenna through the mountains over 90 miles away.) I havent gotten a waiver from then yet so i was getting chicago feeds for my distant networks without an NBC.
Now, i have called all my congressman mutliple times now and spoken with E* many times and basically gotten the same response from all that i am just out of luck. SO being persistent as i am, i decided to find out why i am not allowed to get green bay locals since its only 90 miles away(south) the other direction from our nbc station in Marquette michigan(which we cant get). So i called the general managers of all the networks in green bay to find why my area isnt in green bays DMA or whatnot. They said it isnt up to them, they use Neilsons map to determine market area, and for some reason my market area is considered marquette michigan which has no networks besides NBC which also we cant get since dish has no local package for us.
O yes, i suppose i should say i am literally 1/2mile from the border of being able to get green bay stations, and being as its divided up by county, the county next to me gets green bay and half of them live farther north away from green bay then myself.

So, i spoke with nielson, to find out if its possible to get their DMA stuff changed so this area is considered green bay zone instead of a zone that has no networks. They basically told me their map isnt made to be used by satellite companies to determine 'zones' and they arent responsible for how satellite providers use their map and that they are uninterested in making any changes to their maps. So, after digging hoping to find someone i can talk to about what i would have to do to change our area, i was denied any further assistance.

Okie, Back to talking to General managers, While speaking to a general manager in green bay of one of the networks, he couldnt understand it as well, found it ridiculous that we dont get green bay locals. HE believes dish network is being properly treated for breaking the law(in which i cant argue mostly) and that dish network had years to resolve any issues of people that shouldnt get distant networks and they did nothing. Wtvr. BUT, he told me what i should do,.... (interesting) he told me to get a p.o. box where they can receive green bay locals(which is 1 mile away) and do it that way. Interesting...

Okie.... so from that point i decided to call the guys that installed my dish 3 months ago(yes i have a 18 month contract with Dish and am stuck as stuck gets) basically got the same story as i had gotten from dish network except he also mentioned for me to get a p.o. box in the town next to me. He said the signal reaches here on the 'spotbeam' and it shouldnt be a problem. And he couldnt understand why we dont get it either except FCC regulations or something(i am calling them tomorrow).
Now, i decided to do a little googling and in dish networks policy they say you HAVE to have a phone line to prove where the equipment is located?Or might be possible for 5 dollar charge a month?
okie that sux........but i will pay the 5 bux extra if i can get networks.
Also while speaking to the installers, he told me people in my area do receive green bay as long as ya live south of US2 highway(which i do). So i called dish network AGAIN to speak with them about this. They told me "no its not true and that their 'spotbeam' which can reach 1 mile south of me and 40 miles northeast of me cannot be received in this area, and that 2 inches can make the difference in getting the 'spotbeam' like your nieghbours can get it and you dont' ,and no pee off ya cant have locals." (i may have interpreted what she said differently there, but pee off is what it sounded like to me.)
So i looked up the agreement with dish network and it specifically states they do not accept p.o. boxes to determine location of their equipment.
So here are my questions.....

Can i get dish network without a phone?
Can i do so with a p.o. box?
If not can i use my GF's work address(she has a mailbox there) that resides 20 miles south of here in green bay local zone and not use a phoneline?
Will this spotbeam thing be true that it wont work here 1 mile from where it does work?
Will dish network allow me to 'move' with my current dish?(the guy at my installers told me to tell E* that he had moved it for me... a nice guy eh)
Thanx for any replies....

 

[TNGTony]

I live in the Upper peninsula of Michigan and basically the entire area is white zone. this isnt just a small area... it takes 4 hours to drive through our 'white zone'. So alot of people will be affected by this in our area. We have no local channels in our area and NBC is considered zone B i do believe...( can 'supposedly' get on antenna through the mountains over 90 miles away.) I havent gotten a waiver from then yet so i was getting chicago feeds for my distant networks.)

Hello there! Welcome to Satelliteguys.

Though there is a big chunk of the UP that is a white area, not all of the UP is in a white area for all networks.

WBUP TV 10 Ishpeming, MI ABC
(and a full power repeater)

WLUC TV 6
Marquette, MI NBC

WNMU TV 13
Marquette, MI PBS

WMQF TV 19
Marquette, MI Fox

WJMN TV 3
Escanaba, MI CBS

The Marquette TV Market looks like this:

From http://www.echostaruser.com

The trick is to get Dish to add this market which has all 5 most popular networks.

 

[Malamute]

Hello there! Welcome to Satelliteguys.

Though there is a big chunk of the UP that is a white area, not all of the UP is in a white area for all networks.

WJMN TV 3
Escanaba, MI CBS
WLUC TV 6
Marquette, MI NBC
WBUP TV 10
Ishpeming, MI ABC (and a full power repeater in Marquette)
WNMU TV 13
Marquette, MI PBS
WMQF TV 19
Marquette, MI

Hmm interesting... the only one they said i could get was the NBC... and honestly... i cant get one of those stations on an antenna...
i live at the very south part there.... and dish doesnt offer any of those stations for us...also ya can live 5 miles south of escanaba and qualify for all green bay networks.... go figure. They dont even not give them the cbs station thats in escnaba.... bleh this stinks..


edit... would be GREAT if they could add that market... also... the cable providers dont even supply those channels...LOL... the cable in town by me haslike lansing abc(6 hours away) green bay fox and cbs, and marquette NBC. doesnt make sense. Do all those stations really exist?..
i live at the very very bottom tip of dickinson county...

and thanx for the help.

double edit: WJMN TV 3 is a satellite of WFRV TV in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

and the others are all marquette which is 90 miles away, through the mountains.

so to get all networks ya still have to use green bay locals!!>.. OMG!... i may have a breakdown.

 

[ThomasRz]

Hmm interesting... the only one they said i could get was the NBC... and honestly... i cant get one of those stations on an antenna...
i live at the very south part there.... and dish doesnt offer any of those stations for us...also ya can live 5 miles south of escanaba and qualify for all green bay networks.... go figure. They dont even not give them the cbs station thats in escnaba.... bleh this stinks..

You are within the contour for all networks except NBC and you are barely outside that. Anybody who is in the Marquette DMA would not qualify for Green Bay stations (except as SV) regardless of the relative distances. So you can go OTA (may need an antenna upgrade) or cable. Of course you can get D* and still have a Chicago NBC feed. Or wait for E* to add the DMA. At that point you would get the MQT stations not Green Bay (except again, possibly for SV if (1) E*'s problems get worked out and (2) E* decides to offer these SV stations).


edit... would be GREAT if they could add that market... also... the cable providers dont even supply those channels...LOL... the cable in town by me haslike lansing abc(6 hours away) green bay fox and cbs, and marquette NBC. doesnt make sense. Do all those stations really exist?..
i live at the very very bottom tip of dickinson county...

Yes, Virginia those stations exist. Just not for you

and thanx for the help.

double edit: WJMN TV 3 is a satellite of WFRV TV in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

But it provides network programming and has local (your area) information (news/weather) substituted for Green Bay information sometimes. It is not an exact duplicate of WFRV.

and the others are all marquette which is 90 miles away, through the mountains.

Those "mountains*" are essential large hills and often the transmitters are located on top of them. If you cannot receive OTA (with a proper antenna) you can always ask for a waiver. Which won't help you with E* but may with D*.

*Never use the term mountain in this fashion to somebody from Colorado or Alaska. It would be like you (being relatively close to Lake Superior) listening to somebody call some pond a lake.


so to get all networks ya still have to use green bay locals!!>.. OMG!... i may have a breakdown.

Well yes and no. As pointed out above WJMN is not really the same as WFRV, at least with regard to local (non-network) content.

 

[dishrich]

Of course you can get D* and still have a Chicago NBC feed.

NO he won't - he can ONLY get NY or LA as a distant from D*...

 

[Chris Walker]

When we will know if this bill is successful that is supposedly being introduced today?