Distribution Amplifier for Internet?

[gunderson1985]

Hi, I tried posting this on Yahoo! Answers, but it doesn't look like I'll be getting a response anytime soon. I figured I might as well post it in the forum where I learned anything and everything about FTA Satellite reception, and a boatload of other things.

Here is my question in it's entirety:

I'm looking into getting wireless internet from a provider. It's the wireless kind where you have to point the dish at a tower to get a signal. In order to do this I have to run between 400 and 500 feet of RG-6. (Trees blocking the line of sight, so I have to have a tower roughly 20 feet up and 450 feet from the house.) I've already read that the loss will be between 7 and 10 db. This set up has a transceiver and I believe it powers the antenna. I'm positive that I can get a good signal from the tower as it's been tested before.

My question is, will I be able to use a distribution or inline amplifier on this set up without interfering with the transceiver, etc. Or, is this just way too long of a run of coax.

Any advice, suggestions would be much appreciated.

P.S. This is a great community forum. I was able to set up my FTA dish and receiver just from reading different threads. This is the first time I've had to ask anything, and it's not even FTA related. Thanks, everyone, for all the information. I really appreciate it.

Visionsat IV200
39" Ku
Spitfire Elite LNB
61.5 W - 127.5W

 

[iwc5893]

How did you come to the 7-10dbm loss number? Depending upon the frequency that is being transmitted in the cable, that number could be drastically higher.

Best case scenario, 400 feet of RG-6 @ 100MHz results in a cable loss of 8dbm.
Same conditions @ 400MHz results in a loss of 17.2dbm
Same conditions @ 900MHz results in a loss of 25dbm.
Above 1GHz, it drops off even faster. For example, 2GHz results in a cable loss of 55.9dbm, resulting a 0.0% cable efficiency

Worst case scenario, 500 feet of RG-6 @ 100Mhz gives you a cable loss of 12.5dbm.
@ 400Mhz, it is 26dbm; @ 900MHz it is 41.5dbm, and at 2GHz it is 69.8dbm (0.0% efficiency).

By comparison, using LMR400 at 500 feet and 2GHz gives you a drop of 29.9dbm and an efficiency rating of 0.1%.

Given these numbers, I'd say you're going to be pushing the limits of the cable at those distances if (and it is a very big if) it would even work.

My suggestion would be to relay off your "tower" using a dedicated point to point link such as the Ubiquiti AirMax system

 

[oldford]

I've used inline amplifiers in one satellite application where the cable run was 250+ feet of RG-6. They seem to work fine for this particular site. The satellite signal is converted (as usual) to 950-1450 mHz at the LNB, so the amp needs to be spec'd for that freq range.

I'm not really sure how this will apply to a terrestrial WISP, what does the provider say?

GL, Eric

 

[jayn_j]

Agree that there is little you can do to stop the loss. Amplifiers are not a real answer because you end up amplifying the noise along with the signal. They can help, but they are not miracles.

Why not put the modem out near the tower and run shielded cat-6. If necessary, you can place a switch midway to keep signal integrity.

Another solution is to go 802.11 with an extender link. Use higher gain yagi antennas and you would have a reliable link at that distance (assuming you can see the tower from the house)

Just some thoughts.

 

[gunderson1985]

How did you come to the 7-10dbm loss number?

I was looking on Yahoo! Answers. Doesn't surprise me to find that it was inaccurate. Thanks for the info.

Why not put the modem out near the tower and run shielded cat-6.

I had thought about it. I have a garage that is about 150 to 200 feet from the mast where the antenna would be mounted. So, I'm assuming that I could have a 200 foot run of RG-6 to the garage where it can connect to the modem and transceiver. From there I would need to run another 300 feet of underground/outdoor cat-6 from the modem to the router in the house.

Does this sound plausible or am I still pushing it?

iwc5893, of the Airmax systems, which do you think would be most practical for my situation. I'm very much a noob when it comes to this type of stuff.

 

[iwc5893]

iwc5893, of the Airmax systems, which do you think would be most practical for my situation. I'm very much a noob when it comes to this type of stuff.

Either the BulletM or the NanoBridge.

 

[navychop]

Can't he fiber it?

 

[iwc5893]

Can't he fiber it?

He could, but it would cost just as much if not more than the Ubiquiti's ... a pair of radios for the Nanobridge cost under $200.

 

[Jared Twomey]

I would do the modem in the garage and run cat5 the rest of the way.
I install the type of internet service you are getting, and I install 300' of cat5 all the time with no problem. Just make sure you get quality cable, and if you are burying it, get direct burial cable.

The other option would be a wireless bridge as previously suggested.
What kind of speeds are you going to be getting from the internet service provider?

 

[jayn_j]

No end of good sugestions here.

Yahoo Answers/Schmansers. Come to Satelliteguys.us for the real thing

 

[gunderson1985]

Jared,

The max speeds they report are 2mbps. We currently have Satellite internet that advertises 1.5 mbps. They forget to tell you about the 1.2 SECONDS of latency and the FAP. I found out about all that stuff after the fact. Satellite internet is good for surfing...and that's about it. It's also costs a whopping 130.00 $ a month.

I've looked into going with a 3G connection as an alternative, but the local mobile provider only offers USB air sticks. Some friends have told me I could get a 3G router, but the problem with getting my internet over the 3G network would be the usage. I don't think it's meant for downloading music or gaming and I was told I would likely get shut down for downloading too much even on an unlimited plan. (75.00$/month).

I think my only option is to go with the LOS set up. Mount the grid antenna on a 20 foot mast as close to the garage as I can. Use LMR-400 from the antenna to the modem, then have a run of cat5 or 6 from the modem to a router in the house.

 

[Stargazer]

Run electric wire there then have your client radio (receiving from the tower) and a AP (access point that will transmit it to you). You will then have a repeater site. You will also need a client radio at your house to receive the signal from the AP you just created. If it is line of site then you can get a pair of these radios that can be put into client or AP mode for around $150.