Disturbing news on the Turner Channels

S

shilton

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Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Nov 16, 2003
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:evil: I emailed Dish the other day to voice my opinions as to any notions of Dropping the Turners and to let them know that my kids especially would miss Cartoon Network and even more so BOOMERANG (the only place to see the good old ones these days) and here is what I got back from them today...

"We are currently in negotiations to renew our licensing agreement with Turner Broadcasting Systems so that we can continue broadcasting Boomerang, CNN, CNNfn, Headline News, The Cartoon Network, Turner Classic Movies and Turner South.

Unfortunately, Turner wants to drastically increase the rates we pay them to have the rights to broadcast these channels to you. DISH Network has always fought to bring you the widest range of programming at the lowest possible price, and we want to fight to keep your prices low.

However, if Turner will not provide us with broadcasting rights at a fair and reasonable price and we cannot reach an agreement, we will be forced to remove these channels from our lineup. We are trying our hardest to save the Cartoon Network."

Note we are using words like "trying to save" which means that this deal must be going very sour right now and it does not sound as if Dish has any notion of trying to keep all the channels on, so I must say I think it looks bleak!

If the Cartoons go...so do I. I hope Dish remembers that cheap, cheap, cheap isn't always the way to go. They shouldn't just roll over and pay anything either, but costs do go up. Imagine what the lineup would be if Dish dropped every channel every time a rate increase was proposed.

I am concerned this time. This seems different than the threats of Dropping FX and ABC Family, etc.
 
J

jgoggan

Member
Dec 4, 2003
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From what Charlie said -- his issue isn't that they are asking for an increase -- it is that it is a large ("double digit") rate increase. So, maybe Dish isn't being unreasonable...

It'll suck to lose them, of course. I'm still hopeful that it will work out.

If it doesn't, then Charlie better go the other way and give US the discount (or other channels that they can buy with whatever the old rate for the Turners was) when they go... I doubt it seriously though.

- John...
 
sclaws

sclaws

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One would think that DirecTV would be facing a similar rate increase, but I have not seen any fourm talk about D* losing the Turner networks....just makes me wonder what really is going on behind the scenes on this issue. :?:
 
Sparkman

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sclaws said:
One would think that DirecTV would be facing a similar rate increase, but I have not seen any fourm talk about D* losing the Turner networks....just makes me wonder what really is going on behind the scenes on this issue. :?:

I would bet that their contract with Turner is not up for renewal yet. I'm sure they will be looking at an increase when it is.
 
sclaws

sclaws

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Sparkman said:
sclaws said:
One would think that DirecTV would be facing a similar rate increase, but I have not seen any fourm talk about D* losing the Turner networks....just makes me wonder what really is going on behind the scenes on this issue. :?:

I would bet that their contract with Turner is not up for renewal yet. I'm sure they will be looking at an increase when it is.

Good point..I wasn't thinking about it that way. D'oh.
 
MikeD-C05

MikeD-C05

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Are you kidding? Maybe instead of a rate increase next year we will break even instead.
 
J

jgoggan

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Dec 4, 2003
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Exactly -- very unlikely. But, I'm a AT50 subscriber -- I could see them dropping some AT100 stuff down to substitute if they dropped the Turner stuff. I could live with that -- except for missing Cartoon Network... :(

- John...
 
F

Forward

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Sep 22, 2003
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I can't imagine a sat or cable service without CNN

CNN and TCM are two vitally important channels. CNN is still the cable news leader and TCM is the only reliable source for good movies presented commercial free and in OAR. If they go, I may have my 6000 and 811 on Ebay shortly thereafter.

I will be shocked if cooler heads on both sides don't prevail and work this out. Dish can't afford to lose some of its most important channels, and Turner can't afford to lose 6,000,000 customers.
 
sclaws

sclaws

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CNN to me has always been a 'given', even for basic cable. I can't imagine that Joe 6-pack will tolerate losing the Turner channels. Dish is looking for major backlash with this one, regardless of how nice they draw their charts and graphs.
 
D

dmodemd

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Oct 1, 2003
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Same thing happened last year with ESPN and Disney, ABC Family, etc... they worked it out at the last minute. I think they were all set to pull them and made the announcement.

Locally they pulled WJLA (ABC) when they complained about distant nets and would not renew their contract - but it was also about money. Dish pulled them and there was a local public outcry AGAINST WJLA and they relented.

Dish really needs to actually pull some major stuff to be able to show they are serious about doing it. I say let them dump these channels for a month or show to set the precedent.
 
dlsnyder

dlsnyder

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Sep 8, 2003
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CNN is one of the very few channels (like ESPN or MTV) that everyone just assumes will be there. I can't imagine that any of the Turner channels would be gone for long, if they left at all. I seem to recall a year or two ago everyone thought that the FOX channels were going away because of a similar dispute. Then all of a sudden a last minute deal was done and those of us in LA got a bonus - FOX Sports West 2.

I'm not going to get real excited about this. IMHO it will all blow over soon.
 
S

shilton

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Nov 16, 2003
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dmodemd said:
Dish really needs to actually pull some major stuff to be able to show they are serious about doing it. I say let them dump these channels for a month or so to set the precedent.
:?: Aahhh...but what happens if they get pulled for a month or so and customers leave in the process? With Rupert's DirecTV deal nearing approval, wouldn't take too much for Rupert to roll out a very attractive deal to lure customer away (we have the channels you want!) kinds thing. Dish is gaining subs. Now is NOT the time for "Churn" after the poor last quarter news Charlie had to give his investors that they missed the boat on Superdish and 105 and HD, etc. They simply cannot afford to pull these stations!
 
Al K

Al K

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Dec 11, 2003
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The answer should be an a-la-carte selection of programming. Those who are willing to pay Turner's price can subscribe. Those who are unwilling won't subscribe. Let the customer make the decision.....not the programmer.




Al Keown
 
mwgiii

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Maybe if they drop Cartoon Network, Charlie will finally add PBS Kids.

Yea right. (sitting in the corner holding my breath turning blue)
 
dlsnyder

dlsnyder

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Sep 8, 2003
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Al K said:
The answer should be an a-la-carte selection of programming. Those who are willing to pay Turner's price can subscribe. Those who are unwilling won't subscribe. Let the customer make the decision.....not the programmer.




Al Keown

AOLTW will never let that happen. Their ad rates are based partly on the number of potential eyeballs they have access to. They can't let something like that happen or their bottom line will suffer. Realistically they don't want to lose access to any of the 9 million-plus of us out here on Dish Network. IIRC Dish is something like the second or third largest single program provider in the US. Someone correct me if I am wrong here...
 
BobMurdoch

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It's all a bluff. There is NO way that E* will gift wrap a marketing coup for The Pig, Voom, or D* by doing this. A single channel might have happened (ABC Family or FX), but 6 channels?

Ain't gonna happen.

Wring your hands, gnaw your teeth, whatever gets you through the day, but don't think they are going away. Remember this is the guy that added to D*'s overhead by LEGALLY offering to pay more than D* for a satellite that was due to be delivered. In order to avoid a capacity disaster, D* had to raise the price they paid to keep it.

Nice? No.
Legal? Yes.
Ethical? Puhleez.

If you saw HALF of the stunts businesses use to grab market share or weaken their opponents you'd lose your lunch. They may PROJECT that warm and fuzzy image, but it's just good business to be perceived as a tough negotiator. Charlie got his start playing Poker professionally. He just lit up Turner's switchboard with the Charlie Chat stunt. Look for this to get done by New Year's or a week or two later after both sides agree on an extension. Neither side can afford to go on without the other.
 
M

mikew

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Sep 7, 2003
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sclaws said:
One would think that DirecTV would be facing a similar rate increase, but I have not seen any fourm talk about D* losing the Turner networks....just makes me wonder what really is going on behind the scenes on this issue. :?:

DirecTV doesn't normally expose their negotiations to the general public. There is no resource (ie Charlie Chat) for them to dissemenate the information. They could be doing the same thing, the general public just doesn't know. Take, for example, Trio. Their website is urging people to support them staying on D*. Have you heard anything from D* regarding negotiations with Trio?
 
dlsnyder

dlsnyder

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Sep 8, 2003
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As has been stated elsewhere its just a different business strategy. E* uses negative publicity as a negotiating tool. D* uses money and a larger subscriber base. They each have to go with their strengths.
 
D

drcos

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Sep 13, 2003
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I was offended during the chat by charlie comparing AMC to TCM, saying ...well these movies on TCM are also shown on AMC, Disney, etc etc.
Well here on TCM those movies are typically shown in OAR, and without silly commercial breaks every 15 minutes (AMC) or 5 minutes (Disney and others), and are typically not edited too bad.

This is an apples and oranges thing...or maybe its a mangoes and pears thing. I can never remember which.
 

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