dual tuner backfeed problems

[dizzydean]

We have recently begun experiencing random problems on the backfeed for dual tuners. TV2 will have a snowy screen regardless of modulator settings. This problem occurs in dual tuners of all types. Today it was a 322 model for me. Other guys have had the same problem on 625s. The only resolution each time is to remove the diplexers and run a direct line to TV2. We have tried different brand diplexers, coax, etc. It happens on both air and cable settings. It happens on both old and new TVs. We have tried different recievers in the same house with the same result, and yet can proceed to the next install and have no problems using the same equipment. Anyone out there had similar problems? Anyone out there with an answer?

 

[Fredinva]

Sometimes when I have a problem, be it signal strength or tv2 picture on a dual tuner, I simply cut off my f-connectors and replace them, this time with a slightly longer center conductor. This has helped me on a few occasions.

Also. we check all our diplexers out of the bag to ensure they pass voltage.


fred

 

[SimpleSimon]

You got it - WAY too many installers STILL cut the stinger flush with the nut.

I go 1/4" long on ALL connections and have no problems.

 

[dizzydean]

Sometimes when I have a problem, be it signal strength or tv2 picture on a dual tuner, I simply cut off my f-connectors and replace them, this time with a slightly longer center conductor. This has helped me on a few occasions.

Also. we check all our diplexers out of the bag to ensure they pass voltage.


fred

What kind of test do you run on the diplexers?

 

[dizzydean]

You got it - WAY too many installers STILL cut the stinger flush with the nut.

I go 1/4" long on ALL connections and have no problems.

There are some connections in life that require more than 1/4 inch. But since you have no problems...

 

[Weezknight]

You got it - WAY too many installers STILL cut the stinger flush with the nut.

I go 1/4" long on ALL connections and have no problems.

Oops! When I connected my TV2 in my house, the old guy before me had the stingers wayyy longer than the nut, so I cut them flush. Oh well, I guess that's why I'm not an installer.

I haven't seen much of a problem, though. At least not more than the problems one would expect from a line that's split 3 times along the way.

 

[dizzydean]

Oops! When I connected my TV2 in my house, the old guy before me had the stingers wayyy longer than the nut, so I cut them flush. Oh well, I guess that's why I'm not an installer.

I haven't seen much of a problem, though. At least not more than the problems one would expect from a line that's split 3 times along the way.

I have seen stingers shorted out almost even with the collar and dielectric still bringing at least one satellite signal. There's the way things should be, and then there's the way things are. The problems we are having are not related to stingers... with the exception of checking diplexer voltage, so far I feel like I am talking to " tech support" at Dish. I think I will do a fpr on the microwave, unplug the refrigerator, clip the cat 1/4" from it's nuts and check the answers again tomorrow. TV2 will probably go from snowy to just plain laughter if I go around measuring stingers to an exact 1/4".

 

[Ken P.]

I've seen TV's shorted out from long stingers and watched conractors have to buy newones

 

[dizzydean]

Is there any remote chance we good get off the subject of stingers? We know the importance of good fittings, stinger length, dielectric flush to the collar, etc. etc. etc. . I was hoping someone had something original to contribute. These are completely random occurences with nothing in common except diplexers. Those same diplexers will work at the next job. The same receivers will work at the next job. We have tried everything to isolate a cause... believe me I wish it was a stinger because I would never have logged on to this site if that was the case. If you have something to add it would be welcome, but please don't reply if you are just going to patronize and talk down. I can call dish "tech support" and get that.

 

[dizzydean]

FYI - it turns out to be a ground related problem on certain houses. The fix is actually simple. The reason the diplexers won't work is that they are run through the ground block, while the direct backfeed line is not. Thanks to those of you who tried to help. Good luck to the rest of you obsessed with stinger length.

 

[bweiteka]

Weird, so you fixed it by running the backfeed through a ground block also?

 

[sprintcarcrazy]

Don't mess with my Stinger!

 

[OkSatPro]

Yes, I am wondering exactly what was the fix here? I think I missed it.... but then, sometimes I need it explained again LOL

I had the same problem on an install. We fixed it by eliminating the diplexor route and running a line strait out of TV2....

NOTE installed the same way many times with no problems..... I find it a mystery why it happens only on some installs... very few in fact...

SO what was your fix again?

Mark

 

[SimpleSimon]

FYI - it turns out to be a ground related problem on certain houses. The fix is actually simple. The reason the diplexers won't work is that they are run through the ground block, while the direct backfeed line is not. Thanks to those of you who tried to help. Good luck to the rest of you obsessed with stinger length.

Nah - that's NOT the problem.

Although a short stinger at the ground block could be.

 

[woodybeetle]

Stupid question, are you installing the attenuators that come with the recievers?, just a thought

 

[bweiteka]

I hate it when I have a brain fart and put the diplexor in backwards!

 

[techdood]

Stupid question, are you installing the attenuators that come with the recievers?, just a thought

I'm NOT flaming you but...

"attenuators" and a TV2 problem with signal LOSS

I think even the worse technicians would leave it out.

 

[chadzx11]

Yes, I am wondering exactly what was the fix here? I think I missed it.... but then, sometimes I need it explained again LOL

I had the same problem on an install. We fixed it by eliminating the diplexor route and running a line strait out of TV2....

NOTE installed the same way many times with no problems..... I find it a mystery why it happens only on some installs... very few in fact...

SO what was your fix again?

Mark

I want to know, too! I've run across a few houses that weren't grounded. It always makes me nervous to splitbolt my ground to a customer's loose house ground, much less plug anything in inside the house. Call the power people already.

 

[OkSatPro]

attenuators....

I thought about this as a solution on one of the installs where we had this problem.... However, at that time I was with another Tech and it was Job I was helping hiom and he insisted that wouldnt do it...

However, a few days ago I had this same problem on one of my jobs.... but what fixed it was not the attenuator I am wondering if its not the diplexors at all and or signal loss or drop...

simply because of what fixed it on this TV......

The TV ofcourse was TV2 .... the rpimary as useual was clear and working perfectly but TV2 was snowy....

I had the cable running to the TV input on the tv everything was as its been on every other install of this sort...
However, on this TV they had a VHf UHF adapter as well as the standard cable input ... and out of pure desperation I descided to hook up to that and WaLa I had no more snowy signal....

Could it possibly be the TV's and how we are hooking them up.... perhaps some when in Off air mode or antenna instead of cable this would solve the issue?

Any thoughts about this?

All I know every other time I have encountered this before I eneded up by passing the Diplexors and running strait out to TV 2


Except this time and this cleared it up.... I am going to carry one of those around just to test it should it happen again

I am not saying this is the fix but I found it very interesting that it cleared up my snowy screen.


Mark

 

[dizzydean]

Sorry, I have been away from the computer for a few days. Certain houses are not grounded properly ( Surprise! ). Lets see, what would be a good analogy... Oh. I know. You know how every once in awhile you run across someone who just thinks they know what they are talking about, but then your try their advice, and it turns out they are full of bravo sierra? Or they think there is only one answer for every problem (theirs). Its like that. Certain houses have a ground problem, just like some people have a real ego problem. I logged on to this site for some simple advice. Some of you were really honest and tried to help. I really appreciate your efforts.
Back to grounding. The reason the picture on TV2 is snowy is poor grounding in the house. The reason it gets to TV2 in the first place is because a.) the coax from the diplexer Sat port goes directly from the diplexer to the ground block, b.) the receiver has a 3-prong plug attached to an outlet which is grounded to the house, which has a grounding problem that generates interference on the house that Jack built and really annoys the living crap out of good honest techs like ourselves. The reason the direct line from the TV2 port on the back of the dual tuner fixes the problem is that it typically runs straight to TV2 without passing through the ground block and picking up the snow. I am aware that certain old TVs need a transformer by the way. This is not that type of problem. It sounds to me like several of you have run into this problem also.
The simple fix that worked for us was to put an adaptor on the power plug of the receiver (and TV2 when necessary) to convert the plug from 3-prong to 2-prong so that the receiver's ground plug is not touching the poorly grounded outlet on the house. TV2 cleared up when we tried this.
Or you could throw 3 stingers over your shoulder for good luck, click your heels together, and repeat over and over again "It has to be the stinger, it has to be the stinger, it has to be the stinger..."
We also had a touble call that had a receiver doing really crazy things that no one could solve. After replacing all the components, diplexers, receivers, etc. we finally went out and took the ground wires off the ground block and the problem went away. We grounded the dishes directly instead of using the ground block.
You can google the subject of grounding and maybe someone else will find another solution as well. Look up the subject of ground loop for example, which causes audio interference. We cheated and called an electrician.
Hope this helps.