Echostar 18 Launch Approx 4:15 EDT June 18 2016

Discussion in 'DISH Network Support Forum' started by nelson61, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. You are better off not trying to figure it out . Lol.
    I'll let you know today if western arc is better or worse than eastern arc, as long as I can get the 129, I'm hooking up a 1000 plus dish for Internationals.

    But I'm going to go right back to EA, with the 118 when I'm done,
    Because the 129 is way low in the sky and it's right next to a pine tree at 18 degees in elevation.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
  3. The point is not the difference between EA or WA. The point is for the WA ONLY, AFTER the WA conversion to 100% 8PSK, the HD PQ is worse than before. Others on this forum also have the same opinion.

    PQ is not necessarily going to look the same on one arc compared to the other. Encoding is a matter that is dealt with for each stream due to its unique data and the unique health of each satellite. The engineers are going to encode for each stream for best PQ and audio within the technical limits of each situation, arc, data in the stream, real power of a transponder, FEC, etc. all sorts of of conditions and considerations. Its never going to be the same. Rather, the goal is to get the best PQ and audio for each transponder.

    Among my observations on HD after full 8PSK implementation includes the following: far more obvious banding, insufficient data for black (for video, black is a "color" not the absence of data) less sharp, luminescence/contrast seems inferior, even the audio seems slightly inferior. Of course, all this is subjective, but very noticeable to me, and while not everyone may notice, there have been others who have agreed. However, some of the channels look better over the last few weeks, but NOT as good as before the full 8PSK implantation.

    IMHO, Dish seemed to really be pushing the limits of encoding at the expense of noticeable, to some, HD PQ degradation. Even though 8PSK change over was for SD only, such experimentation can have an impact on HD as far as how they will move around the HD channels and perhaps cramming more data for them as well because this affects how much room for current SD and even MORE HD to come and perhaps even MORE spot beams. All this has an effect on ALL the SD and HD channels and data. Perhaps this was something of an experiment to see how much data they can cram and an experiment before Echo 18 is launched? I have hope that once Echo 18 is launched and operational, we should see, after some experimentation after launch, improvement for all channels.
    Troch77 likes this.
  4. Newly launched satellites are almost always--in the case of DBS this has ALWAYS been the case--used to repalce the one already there and the older one is put to back-up or sent to another slot. Echo 18 will have the latest tech, and so we know it will be used as the primary.

    However, more than one satellite can be co-loacted and the duties shared between the two. I believe Echo 11 (or was it another sat) was an ALL spotbeam sat designed for 110. This meant that another satellite had to simultaneously perform the CONUS duties. So, both satellites were needed for service at 110. Now, that extra capacity, including spots of the older sat provided as a back-up to SOME of the content at 110, but a back-up, indeed, better than nothing at all.

    In fact, in the early years of DirecTV and Dish, DBS a single satellite was capable of only 16 transponders. If a DBS wanted to exploit the 180 degree out of phase trick to get an addtional 16 transponders for a total of 32 transponders, they needed TWO satellites co-located at the same orbiltal slot and operational at the same time. One sat handled 16 transponders and the other sat handed another 16 transponders. Over the years, the sats were capable of more power making it possible for a single satellite to handle all 32 transponders. In fact, the two biggest innovations for DBS sats have been more and more and more POWER, and MORE and MORE spotbeams, but with POWER being the key to just about everything in DBS innovation. In fact, POWER has also been the key to adding more channels to each transponder because if a DBS is going to use more compression to squeeze more data on each transponder, it, consequently, will send less Forward Error Correction which will increase the chance of key data being lost on the downlink and resulting in interrpuptions of picture and sound. To compensate for that higher risk of loss, the satellite must operate at higher power to ensure all the key data gets to your reflector and you have no interruptions in picture or sound.

    FWIW, I have noticed over the years that Dish has become more and more suseptiable to "rain fade" along with the ever increasing loads of data on the sat. It is not a terrible situation by any means, but we in the house have commented "it never went out as often before." This is the compromise for more channels and services. You may notice that sometimes even during very bad storm conditions, while your national channels will be lost, you locals, if they are on a spotbeam, are often still showing fine picture and sound. This is becuase the spotbeams are operating at a higher power than the ConUS. POWER is just about EVERYTHING for satellites, DBS and all.
  5. #25 DishSubLA, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
    On the same thoughts as HDTV antennas and 4K satellites: our UHD TV's don't display 4K because UHD is not truly 4K. It's kind of close, but no cigar. In fact, none of the manufacturers should lable any of their UHD TV's as "4K," but some probably do. A retailer might make his own price label reading "4K" our of ignorance, but the industry is CLEAR on UHD not being 4K. The marketing term "4K UHD" is used by some manufacturers of UHD TV's, but that really isn't truly accurate, either. There are no 4K TV's being sold to consumers (AFAIK); only UHD TV's being sold to consumers. There are 4K monitors are in production studios and they master to 4K because 4K is a production standard, but we aint seeing any 4K resolution at home, only the UHD resolution at home. Further, 4K is a seperate standard from UHD with a different industry encoding from what UHD content for consumer viewing will be encoded.

    OK, I've caught myself using the term "4K" now and then. I have to say, I've stayed consistent using the term UHD for almost a year :). Of course, if someone says "4K" in conversation, I certainly don't correct them, as I undestand that the term has stuck and is a big part of the marketing, and I understand what he means. I seem to have noticed more recent TV's being labeld as "UHD" without any "4K" reference.
  6. Picture Quality is in the eyes of the Beholder. My wives Mother thinks SD is HD on her new 50" flat screen HDTV. I have told her she needs to go to 1003 for the HD version of channel 3 on Cox Cable and she is always on 003, the SD version. The quality of flat screen tvs as compared to the old tube tvs is much better and many people cannot tell the difference.
  7. Not much going to change except availability of more spots (109 spots in total). E18 is 100 percent spots and no Conus so an adjacent satellite will continue to provide the Conus from 110W.

    If anyone wants to help, there is a bunch of work remaining to take google earth photo snapshots of the 109 beams for attachment in "The List" tables.
    I can provide a zip file of all the kmz's.
  8. Thanks. E18 being all spots makes good sense. Are the spots on E18 steerable? I think Dish already has one or two that are steerable as that innovation is great for those who need it, especially Dish.
  9. All Fixed beam with variable power on each beam. The multiple beams and their overlaps effectively eliminate any need for steerable beams
  10. Thanks. The point of steerable is so that the same sat can be used at a different Dish slot such as 119 as opposed to 110. The steerable are designed for at least 2 different sat slots, but usually one of the two is the most efficient. It allows Dish to move around the steerable if they have to so that they have more options should such shuffleing need to be done due to failures or whatever.
  11. They are not steerable. They just repoint the satellite center beam when they move it to another longitude. The beam patterns are so extensive that the fixed beams provide 100 percent coverage even when moved to another location (a different spot may be used to cover a specific geographic area when the satellite is moved to another longitude).

    There are a couple of steerable satellite in the Southwest Pacific that have two beam withs one of them steerable. But, steerable beam satellites are relatively rare.
    TheKrell likes this.
  12. Wasn't Echostar 14 built with a synthetic aperture antenna? No, I looked it up and it was AMC14.
  13. It's pretty easy to "see" Dish's HD quality could use some work... I get it is in the eye of the beholder, but anyone with experience knows Dish is shortchanging HD PQ.
    Troch77 likes this.
  14. If there are more spotbeams on this new 110 satellite, could we see Dish move some of the spots off of 119 or 129 and reclaim those transponders for CONUS?
  15. They could do that, they could add more markets in HD that are SD now, mirror more markets that are Eastern Arc, etc.
  16. #36 nelson61, Apr 21, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
    I'll have photos of all the spots ready in a couple of days and will post them. Echostar 10 has 49 spots available now. Jumping to 109 spots available sure indicates they will have more options (and the E10 spots will also still be available so long as the each of the transponders coverage areas do not overlap).
  17. Can some of the spot beam transponders on Ceil 2 be configured to CONUS?
  18. Things are firming up. Current estimate is launch on June 8 - 4:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time).
    gadgtfreek likes this.
  19. Not from what has been licensed.
  20. EchoStar 18 110W Beam Centers Echostar  18 109.9W Beam Centers.jpg
Satellite Signals DISH Network Support Forum