Echostar X move and SF "minors" spotbeam

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roadrhino

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
May 11, 2004
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Hi all,

I noticed this last weekend that I could not get some stations that I had been able to get a week earlier.

In particular, all the "minor" San Francisco DMA stations seem to now be on transponder 31 spotbeam 43 (thanks Tony and dishchannelchart for the info) and I am unable to get any of them. Admittedly, I am on the edge of the SF DMA and the spotbeam signal strength has always been a bit weak, but a zero signal strength seems even weaker. Interestingly enough, I get "good enough" signal strength on the major stations which are on transponder 26 spotbeam 43.

So, my question is this ... what should I do to fix this?

I could go up and start re-aiming the dish (dish 500) to optimize for the weak spotbeam (if I can get it at all).

Could it possibly be that my (legacy) LNB has somehow gone bad on transpotter 31? I didn't notice any problems earlier, but then again, pehaps I hadn't been using that one earlier.

One nice think is that I've got a spare Dish (dish 300 ... which was aimed at 148 for those same locals) and a spare LNB for testing if need be. Would a dish 300 be more effective than the 500 in these borderline cases?

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Ugh!

Roadrhino
 
TNGTony

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
804
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
If you live to the southwest of SF, especially Fresno, CA, there is an interferance issue that will make it impossible for you to receive tp 31. Both spot beams 43 and 38 (which overlap over Fresno) use transponder 31. Your receiver may be getting gang-buster signal, but it is being jammed by another spot beam doing the same thing. There is nothing that can be done about this.

[edit--Dish should have been spotbeam 39, not 38]

Are you physically inside the SF area? Santa Clara County (the closest to the interferance area) should be okay looking at the controur maps.

See ya
Tony
 
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roadrhino

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
May 11, 2004
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Thanks Tony!

I am pretty much straight South of SF but a bit moreso than most in the DMA. It is fair to suggest that I am far closer to the center of spotbeam 42 than 43. I am most certainly not inside the -6dB contours of spotbeam 38 or 39.

In any case, interference on transponder 31 makes sense but ... isn't Fresno on transponder 4? I didn't spot any DMAs in dishchannelchart that are anywhere nearby which use transponder 31.

How accurate are those spotbeam maps? While I am in 42 and 42 and not in 38 or 39, could the maps be off just enough that I would be picking up enoughg signal from another spotbeam to completely hose up my reception?

Roadrhino
 
TNGTony

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
roadrhino said:
In any case, interference on transponder 31 makes sense but ... isn't Fresno on transponder 4? I didn't spot any DMAs in dishchannelchart that are anywhere nearby which use transponder 31.

How accurate are those spotbeam maps? While I am in 42 and 42 and not in 38 or 39, could the maps be off just enough that I would be picking up enoughg signal from another spotbeam to completely hose up my reception?

Roadrhino

The spotbeam maps are very accurate according to FCC filings. Fresno locals are not on TP 31 but that is irrelevant. Tp31 is unusable in Fresno and just to the north and west. So extreme southern SF DMA could be affected. South of the SF DMA you would be SOL. :)

And yes Berck, I meant southeast :)

See ya
Tony
 
Paradox-SJ

Paradox-SJ

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 20, 2003
1,636
2
San Jose, California
The spot beam for these local are weak by spot beams standards that we are used to seeing...I am in San Jose and its in the 70-80's range.

So it must get worse tje furher south you go....

Where are you exactly roadrhino (city)
 
R

roadrhino

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
May 11, 2004
74
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TNGTony said:
The spotbeam maps are very accurate according to FCC filings. Fresno locals are not on TP 31 but that is irrelevant. Tp31 is unusable in Fresno and just to the north and west. So extreme southern SF DMA could be affected. South of the SF DMA you would be SOL. :)

Okay, I gotcha ... essentially if I am receiving a strong enough signal on tranponder 31 from more than one desired spotbeam, I will have a problem.

What I don't fully understand is which spotbeam the offending signal may be from. In particular, I am not close to spotbeam 38's signal countour. Furthermore, in dishchannelchart, there are no listings for 31s38 (text search) ... or, for that matter nothing besides 31s43.

On the other hand, we get a clue from:

Paradox-SJ said:
The spot beam for these local are weak by spot beams standards that we are used to seeing...I am in San Jose and its in the 70-80's range.

So it must get worse tje furher south you go....

Where are you exactly roadrhino (city)

Right at the border of Monterey and San Luis Obispo Counties ... Lake Nacimiento is a bit Northwest of Paso Robles and sort of Southwest of Bradley.

If the signal strenght is that poor in a region where the signal strength should be at least 100 or 110...

Bummer for me ...

Thanks, guys!
 
TNGTony

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
804
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Alright, Take a look at the attachment to see where the possible interferance may be coming from.
Image1
The gray area will have zero usable signal from tp 31. The surrounding areas will have varying degrees of interferance.

Even though there aren't any channels on transpinder 31 spot 39, it could be turned on with no channels on it for testing before they load it up.

Of course it could be that dish doesn't have spot 43 up to full strength and the signal just doesn't reach that far south.

See ya
Tony
 
R

roadrhino

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
May 11, 2004
74
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TNGTony said:
Alright, Take a look at the attachment to see where the possible interferance may be coming from.
View attachment 8902
The gray area will have zero usable signal from tp 31. The surrounding areas will have varying degrees of interferance.

Even though there aren't any channels on transpinder 31 spot 39, it could be turned on with no channels on it for testing before they load it up.

Of course it could be that dish doesn't have spot 43 up to full strength and the signal just doesn't reach that far south.

See ya
Tony

Love the map! Is there some software package that would generate such maps automagically?

While not exactly in the grayest of gray areas, I am most definitely in the region where some interference may be taking place.

Sounds like we've got two viable explanations, both of which give me hope. If the problem is from signal strenght on spot43, they may turn it up and I'll be okay. However, if the problem is from interference from spot39 and they just stop testing transpotter 31 on that spotbeam, I'll be okay.

Hmmm...

Maybe I'll check again in a week or two to see of I get KRCB back.

Thanks again!



As a postscript I should mention that if, over time, we can determine that my problem is caused by low spotbeam strength on transponder 31 I may just have to go out and buy a larger dish ...

On ebay, old VOOM dishes (24 inch diameter) are going for under $50. I wonder how much of a boos in the signal strength I would get from a properly aimed 24 inch diameter dish over the 21x23 dish 500...
 
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roadrhino

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
May 11, 2004
74
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I just re-peaked and only got an additional 2-3 points on signal strength on any transponder on 110. This included re-skewing to 90 and losing some 10-15 points on my 119 signal strength numbers.

Still at signal strength of zero on transpotter 31 on spotbeam 43 (Echostar X). I guess that I am pretty much hosed for the SF Bay area "minors" (which now seem to include KQED) untill E* ups the signal strength on this transpotter/spotbeam or stops sending out signal on transpotter 31 on other nearby spots (39 and 38 are suspect) or both.

The major bummer here is that my son's favorite station is KQED because he loves Nature and Nova ...

I'll give it another week or two. If E* doesn't get this problem figured out I may have to keep them for only distant networks and use cable instead for "locals" and the bulk of programming.
 
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chrisw27

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Mar 2, 2006
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or you can just get an antenna and get those channels for free
 

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