EchoStar's Spending Not Rubbing Off on Subscribers
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Boy, this is really confusing now
OK, if you can believe what the article says, E* was counting on getting HD subscribers and having them spend more then average on programming. How did they expect to do that when:
- Release a buggy 811
- Offer special deals for existing customers on the 811 them make them wait months to get one
- Release a buggy 921 and it's late
- Release the 811 and 921 with advertised features missing
- Pull Dishwire support after telling folks they'd be able to archive to selected D-VHS decks.
- Tell folks that they'll add up to 50 HD channels on Superdish at 105. Oh, we've changed our mind it's now 110 for HD
- There's no new HD content out there that's compelling so we're not adding anything. (I know, rumor of TNT-TD coming soon but why is that channel compelling but Starz-HD, Cinemax-HD, TMC-HD, Encore-HD or Bravo-HD not compelling?)
To me, E*'s doing what they can to drive away their HD customers. I was a >$120/month customer and the 811 drove me away.
OK, if you can believe what the article says, E* was counting on getting HD subscribers and having them spend more then average on programming. How did they expect to do that when:
- Release a buggy 811
- Offer special deals for existing customers on the 811 them make them wait months to get one
- Release a buggy 921 and it's late
- Release the 811 and 921 with advertised features missing
- Pull Dishwire support after telling folks they'd be able to archive to selected D-VHS decks.
- Tell folks that they'll add up to 50 HD channels on Superdish at 105. Oh, we've changed our mind it's now 110 for HD
- There's no new HD content out there that's compelling so we're not adding anything. (I know, rumor of TNT-TD coming soon but why is that channel compelling but Starz-HD, Cinemax-HD, TMC-HD, Encore-HD or Bravo-HD not compelling?)
To me, E*'s doing what they can to drive away their HD customers. I was a >$120/month customer and the 811 drove me away.
I think that's part of it. In addition, D* gets the vast majority of sports fans who don't mind dropping ~$200 for NFL ST, or $100 to $150 for the NCAA / MLB / NBA / NHL packages. And as the article pointed out, how can Charlie be making any money giving away free 522s to new subs who are only going to take AT60 - and don't even have to promise to stay a year?rad said:
It is an interresting article in that it possibly reveals a little of the Ergan mindset - misguided as it may be sometimes. Trouble is he misses the overall picture when it comes to HD and the DVR connection. How many times has Dish done something positive only to follow up with something dumb or fail to follow up at all.
In the case of HD, Dish while trying to jump ahead of the competition, fails to take into account the DVR factor. As I think Charlie does realize, for the most part, customers that are likely to invest in HD equipment and programming are the customers that are likely to purchase the higher programming tiers; BUT, they are also likely to be the ones that have already purchaced and place a high priority on DRVs, multiple receivers and even dual tuners.
Now these customers, prior to HD, have probably already owned at least one 5xx DVR, most likely two or a dual tuner. They also have at least a couple of premium movie packages or most likely AEP.
So Charlie tries to intice them into HD with a lot of lip service about being the "HD leader" with great plans for the near future. He even invests in a Promo to offer an HD receiver and monitor package that, at the time, can not be matched anywhere (ignore for a moment the quality factor of either unit).
What he doesen't see is that most of these customers have gotten very used to what their DVRs can do - the easy time-shifting and archiving, pausing, a much better EPG, search, etc.
Most everyone that's had DVR features for any length of time has grown dependent on them. They've changed the way they watch tv. Now Dish expects them to give all that up for a "few" "prettier" pictures ? Even if the 811 had come out with relativly few problems, it's NOT a dvr. Even in perfect working order, it's way too much of a compromise in features just to get a nice looking picture.
That leaves the 921 and I don't think we need to go there except to say that even if IT had been released in perfect working order, nowhere near the percentage of customers that Charlie is looking for would ever invest that kind of money in it. Neither will they if it's re-released as a 922 or whatever.
Dish had the jump but blew it on three fronts (811, 921 & their HD programming package). His best bet now (and it needs to start soon) is to come out with a decent HD DVR deal that no one can refuse. It's got to be something that will "shock and awe" the industry (the point being he has to keep existing customers and attract new ones right now). Couple that with an immediate increase in new HD channels along with at least one dedicated SD widescreen movie channel.
If he really wants to attract new customers with HD and understands he has to loose money in the short term to do it (like the article claims) then he needs to offer something the competition hasn't yet - more HD than anyone else without having to step backwards in the DBS features they've become accostomed too.
WaltinVt
In the case of HD, Dish while trying to jump ahead of the competition, fails to take into account the DVR factor. As I think Charlie does realize, for the most part, customers that are likely to invest in HD equipment and programming are the customers that are likely to purchase the higher programming tiers; BUT, they are also likely to be the ones that have already purchaced and place a high priority on DRVs, multiple receivers and even dual tuners.
Now these customers, prior to HD, have probably already owned at least one 5xx DVR, most likely two or a dual tuner. They also have at least a couple of premium movie packages or most likely AEP.
So Charlie tries to intice them into HD with a lot of lip service about being the "HD leader" with great plans for the near future. He even invests in a Promo to offer an HD receiver and monitor package that, at the time, can not be matched anywhere (ignore for a moment the quality factor of either unit).
What he doesen't see is that most of these customers have gotten very used to what their DVRs can do - the easy time-shifting and archiving, pausing, a much better EPG, search, etc.
Most everyone that's had DVR features for any length of time has grown dependent on them. They've changed the way they watch tv. Now Dish expects them to give all that up for a "few" "prettier" pictures ? Even if the 811 had come out with relativly few problems, it's NOT a dvr. Even in perfect working order, it's way too much of a compromise in features just to get a nice looking picture.
That leaves the 921 and I don't think we need to go there except to say that even if IT had been released in perfect working order, nowhere near the percentage of customers that Charlie is looking for would ever invest that kind of money in it. Neither will they if it's re-released as a 922 or whatever.
Dish had the jump but blew it on three fronts (811, 921 & their HD programming package). His best bet now (and it needs to start soon) is to come out with a decent HD DVR deal that no one can refuse. It's got to be something that will "shock and awe" the industry (the point being he has to keep existing customers and attract new ones right now). Couple that with an immediate increase in new HD channels along with at least one dedicated SD widescreen movie channel.
If he really wants to attract new customers with HD and understands he has to loose money in the short term to do it (like the article claims) then he needs to offer something the competition hasn't yet - more HD than anyone else without having to step backwards in the DBS features they've become accostomed too.
WaltinVt
Instead of going wowza for the 921... why not make an external attachment to accept HD programming on, say, the 508 or 721.
Or, make an attachable SD DVR to the 811. With HD programming where it is, you don't need to record it, just wait until tomorrow and it's played again.
Why does dish insist on making one reciever for a new function? making one reciever type which has a bunch of plug-and-play parts makes much more sense to me.
Or, make an attachable SD DVR to the 811. With HD programming where it is, you don't need to record it, just wait until tomorrow and it's played again.
Why does dish insist on making one reciever for a new function? making one reciever type which has a bunch of plug-and-play parts makes much more sense to me.
In the past, Dish Network and DirecTV tried to differentiate themselves with programming. For the most part, the programming is now comparable.
Dish Network differentiates itself on cost with a $24.99/mo package, but that appeals to "lower quality" customers, and doesn't really improve ARPU. DirecTV has also been able to offset some of Dish's cost advantage by offering $29.95/mo service to all new customers for six months.
Dish Network differentiates itself with international content, but that only appeals to a small niche. During its recent conference call, DirecTV also indicated that it would significantly expand its international channels this summer / fall.
What's left? Equipment. Equipment is now where the providers differentiate themselves. Dish Network's equipment is at least a generation behind DirecTV; in some cases, it may be two generations behind. This fall, DirecTV will reportedly have a new TIVO DVR without a DVR fee as the default box for all new customers. It won't be as fully-featured as current Tivos (single tuner and season passes, but no wishlists or suggestions), but it will be free or nearly free to all new customers. There aren't many that will choose Dish's equipment after seeing this receiver.
Dish Network differentiates itself on cost with a $24.99/mo package, but that appeals to "lower quality" customers, and doesn't really improve ARPU. DirecTV has also been able to offset some of Dish's cost advantage by offering $29.95/mo service to all new customers for six months.
Dish Network differentiates itself with international content, but that only appeals to a small niche. During its recent conference call, DirecTV also indicated that it would significantly expand its international channels this summer / fall.
What's left? Equipment. Equipment is now where the providers differentiate themselves. Dish Network's equipment is at least a generation behind DirecTV; in some cases, it may be two generations behind. This fall, DirecTV will reportedly have a new TIVO DVR without a DVR fee as the default box for all new customers. It won't be as fully-featured as current Tivos (single tuner and season passes, but no wishlists or suggestions), but it will be free or nearly free to all new customers. There aren't many that will choose Dish's equipment after seeing this receiver.
My question is why is Dish so slow getting around to doing things, I mean how long were they talking about tht 921 before they released it? And then it didn't work, whats the problem!
I think like many of you do, Dish needs to pick up the pace and put out good equipment and increase their HD content!
I think like many of you do, Dish needs to pick up the pace and put out good equipment and increase their HD content!
GaryPen said:
Actually my question is why they seem to work so hard to kill support on last year's products.
I replaced a 4000 2 years ago because DISH absolutely refused to support it. Now my 4900 is starting to border on unusable. Often I can't get a guide that is 30 minutes out and the pip guide is an absolute joke. I see the handwriting on my 508 coming soon, now that the 522 is out.
No, the 4000 really did stop working. Smart card anti-piracy issue. I was told that the problem was that it was an old card, but I was well out of warranty, so I could purchase a new card for $50. The receiver was about 3 1/2 years old at the time.
I have HDTV monitors, but simply can't justify the upgrade with no programming and an assurance that this generation will be unusable by the time programming is available.
I understand that new features require new hardware, but I sometimes feel that DISH is making their numbers by forcing existing customers to upgrade equipment at full list price every couple of years.
- DISH Customer since 1997 - 4900, 508, paid full list for both.
jayn_j said:
So you're saying that E* wanted to charge you $50 to swap out their smartcard because it had piracy issues, that's a nice way to generate some revenue. I don't remember seeing D* say that they charge their customers for a smartcard swap or did I miss that?
At least DishNetwork hasn't decided to start sueing 25,000 of it's subscriber's in an extortion scheme to generate revenue. No, everyone involved aren't satellite pirates or thieves.
http://www.directvdefense.org/
http://www.directvdefense.org/
