HD Lover needs to decide on either E* or D*?

[65notch]

Hello all,

I recently found this site and so far so good. Looks like a good informative site.

Basically I've had OTA HD for a year now but I also recently moved and unfortunately, other than ABC, I am unable to get a strong enough digital signal from my antenna so that I can get OTA HD. A big hill is blocking my antenna's LOS. But I've also been wanting to get ESPN and some other stuff in HD as well.

I just learned that DirectTV offers ALL locals in HD, including PBS! (FYI: I am in Los Angeles). But I see Dish only offers CBS in HD currently.

Basically wanted to get some opinions on whose service is best generally and what providers HD service seemed best.

Lastly, do I need to be concerned about the new MPEG-4 conversion? When is this supposed to take place and maybe I should just wait?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Dave

 

[65notch]

Well I may have answered my own last question. It looks like MPEG-4 is up and running, but not in all markets? Is there a list of which markets have gone gold?

 

[dfergie]

I have the LA nets minus Abc from D*Hd... I do not think they provide PBSHD. I also get CBSHD from E* along with the bulk of my HD programming. IMHO right now E* has better PQ and more choices with the Voom 10 package, but D* has ,as you mentioned the Nets and also Espn2Hd... so it depends on what you want. E* offers the 942 dvr that has 2 tuners and outputs to 2 Tvs and D*has the HD tivo with 2 tuners but they are moving to Mpeg4 pretty quickly...

 

[65notch]

I have the LA nets...

Sorry, NETS? Edit: Ahhh Los Angeles networks...got it.

I just got a DirecTV brochure from Costco that lists PBS HD as a channel?

Can you comment on OTA PQ vs. E*/D* HD PQ? Will I be disappointed? How much more is MPEG4 compressed vs. the OTA content?

 

[dfergie]

No in NM, I got grandfathered in and waivers... until September I also had the NY HD nets...

 

[navychop]

Measurements have been posted in other forums about the HD PQ on both. D* has lower resolution & is bitstarving. The phrase "HD-Lite" was coined to describe HD from D*. Needless to say, some folks are quite unhappy. I'm sure this lower quality is most noticeable on larger screens. It might not be noticeable if you have a set below 40" or so.

These things change over time, so it may not be true a year or 2 from now. YMMV.

Yes, OTA HD is the best; sorry you don't have good reception. From what I hear, locals, both HD & NTSC, tend to be somewhat lower in PQ from both satcos, compared to OTA or the best cablecos. If you want locals in HD, D* is the only one today (if they offer your area), and they offer very few. But more are coming. And E* will add them, but probably will not talk until after their next satellite launch, scheduled for mid summer (I believe).

MPEG-4 will allow satcos to transmit more channels. It is a more efficient compression method. It is not likely to yield better PQ. Both satcos will convert over, probably over the next 3 years or so. D* is converting faster than E*. My hope is that in the first quarter of 2006, E* will release their MPEG-4 8PSK HD DVR, currently believed to be called the 962. It might not be until summer. But E* is likely to push out the MPEG-4 boxes as soon as practical, to minimize the boxes they need to replace later. They've already started shipping the 211 & 411 receivers, which will replace the 811 HD receiver as of 12/15/05.

Very little MPEG-4 will be used the first 6 to 12 months, as both satcos start fielding the new MPEG-4 receivers. Also, the satcos will go slow with MPEG-4 transmissions because they current encoders only gain about 20% in bandwidth savings. It will be 1-2 years before they get up to 40%-50%, which is the expected goal. Not a lot to be gained until then, and encoder purchases today (transmitting end) may be of little use in 2 years. The MPEG-4 receivers going out now will not need to be replaced, as the decoder chips will work fine with the current and projected MPEG-4 transmissions.

With either satco, if you get a non-MPEG-4 receiver to start with, you'll probably be offered a deal to upgrade within the next 2, or at most 3, years. I have decided to hold off moving to satellite HD until the 962 is out. You'll have to weight factors of cost, local & national channel availability, PQ, and how long you wish to wait. Best of luck in your decision.

 

[rad]

IMHO, one black mark about E* is the quality of their STB's when they first start to ship them, just go back and look at the posts about the 811/921/942 when they first came out. While E* usually gets things fixed eventually do you want to be another E* beta tester with a 962?

D* STB's have tended to be more stable in the past but they are now doing their software in house and the initial reports on the new R15 SD DVR have some unhappy folks. I don't know how much of it is because a number of well liked features/functions that the D* Tivo based boxes have are no long available or there are major issues with it. I just got my R15 two days ago and haven't played with it much yet but so far no hangs or problems, but really to early to tell.

I also got the new H20 non-DVR HD STB a week ago and so far it's looking good. The OTA reception is better then the HD Tivo I have and so far no lock ups or problems with it. I'm still waiting on the new 5-LNB dish to be installed so I can't speak of the MPEG4 channels in Chicago area yet.

 

[65notch]

Thanks Navychop,

That's sort of what I understood about D* was the HD PQ was generally considered not as good as E*. And I assumed that MPEG4 automatically meant better HD PQ because of bandwith....ohh well.
I do have a large 53" Panny, and needless to say w/ just basic tweeking, and AVIA, the HD OTA picture is amazing! I've been procastinating calibrating via the service menu.

Rad,
I am assuming you have D*? Since you mention you have the H20, that is a D* STB?
So you get HD via an OTA antenna?

I think I saw people mention that a provider/installer can come out and give a presentation to the HD stuff?


Anyone,

I called DirecTV lastnite and they said I could in fact get Local HD via the satellite feed. But I don't trust them, I feel like they are just saying yes to everything to get me to sign up. The people they have taking orders know nothing about anything I ask them that is minutely technical. Can anyone confirm?
They say I can only get the 3-LNB dish, and I thought only the 5-LNB gets local HD? Or am I mistaken? The 5-LNB is only for the MPEG-4 compression?

With regards to my OTA antenna, it's a pretty small boom RatShack $25 model, on about a 10 ft mast, which probably sits for a total of about 25ft in the air. Now, I get a good strong signal from ABC, so I don't understand why I don't get a decent signal from the other networks because the towers are in the same direction? Anyone? Note, when I punch in my address at the antenna org site no digital stations are listed. But if I move the address just a few hundred yards away, all of the digital channels are shown.

Thanks again folks.

 

[rad]

Yes, I'm a D* user (was also a E* user) and the H20 is their new MPEG4/MPEG2 HD receiver (non-DVR). So yes at this time I'm using an antenna for my locals in HD. Since I'm in Chicago area I also get ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC via D* in HD from NYC (which is MPEG2). Your first post says you live in LA and D* does provide those same for networks from LA via DBS, not OTA, you'd still need OTA for your other channels. If you go to http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/see/LocalChannels.jsp?init=true plug in your zip code and it will show you what HD channels you can get.

 

[65notch]

...Your first post says you live in LA and D* does provide those same for networks from LA via DBS, not OTA, you'd still need OTA for your other channels...

Yes with my zip it says the 4 majors are avail. in HD. I just wasn't sure whether they meant that was via the dish or OTA. And I don't quite understand, what you mean by needing the antenna for other OTA channels? You mean anything digital other than the 4 network channels they have listed as avail.?

So let me ask you, what do you think of the MPEG2 DBS?(Dish Based Sat?) vs. OTA HD. And by difference I am an amateur A/V guy. I don't have a trained eye/ear for the minute differences like some of the other A/Video-philes do.

thanks for your help!

 

[rad]

Yes with my zip it says the 4 majors are avail. in HD. I just wasn't sure whether they meant that was via the dish or OTA. And I don't quite understand, what you mean by needing the antenna for other OTA channels? You mean anything digital other than the 4 network channels they have listed as avail.?

So let me ask you, what do you think of the MPEG2 DBS?(Dish Based Sat?) vs. OTA HD. And by difference I am an amateur A/V guy. I don't have a trained eye/ear for the minute differences like some of the other A/Video-philes do.

thanks for your help!

Yes, you'll need an OTA antenna for the HD/digital channels that D* doesn't carry yet, you'll get the SD versions of the other channels via DBS but not HD. As for quality, folks with the technical tools will tell you that D* does cut back on the resolution of their HD signals in order to fit more HD programming onto their current fleet of satellites. Some folks say that they can see a difference, others say that D* and OTA look the same, so only you will be able to answer that question. I guess for you it will come down to is any HD, even HD lite (what folks call D* HD) better then nothing at all?

LA will at some future date get their locals via the new satellites and using MPEG4. Folks in Detroit and Atlanta that have it already say that D* and OTA HD look the same (but there an audio problem that D* is resolving). Since I'm still waiting for my new dish I can't answer that.