HD Picture Quality

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nolan 1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Sep 27, 2007
45
0
Sometimes component will give you a better picture on some HD TV's.

I tried Component last night and it was the same picture. I dont think its my TV or equipment like I said before the HD picture looked great the first and second day I had dish then it went to crap.

I've only had dish for a little over a week.
 
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EricBskiVT

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 25, 2007
252
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i want to give Dish a chance, I like the programing and HD channel lineup.
And the price. I will give dish a call today and a tech come out to see if they can improve my picture.

My TV is tweaked to the best, like I said before I never had this problem before, and the day dish was installed HD looked great. but it has been going down hill since then. I was watching my local HD channels last night and it was almost unwatchable. The picture would break up a little, especially during fast scene changes. I could see lines through the whole picture and looked worse the a SD feed at some points.
It definitely sounds like a technical issue that requires a tech. I start losing my HD and some SD channels 10 days after my HD upgrade. The tech found that something had made the LNB go askew. He re-pointed it and it's been great since.
Let us know what they find out.
 
Last edited:
N

nolan 1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Sep 27, 2007
45
0
It definitely sounds like a technical issue that requires a tech. I start losing my HD and some SD channels 10 days after my HD upgrade. The tech found that something had made the LNB go askew. He re-pointed it and it's been great since.
Let us know what they find out.

I have a tech coming out Friday to check things out. Doesnt any body else experiance this. Or are all of you think HD is supposed to have grainy choppy look to it. This is 2007 HD should look flawless and not like a poor DVD movie
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
May 5, 2005
3,601
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Edit- know what dude? I have been reading your posts for a while. You don't like Dish. Why not leave it? Try something else. You have a lot of 'the grass is greener' posts. By that I mean you obviously think there is a better service beyond what you are getting from Dish. Is it DirecTV? Cable? Why not give those a try? I am not trying to bust chops at all so don't take it that way. But your misery from E* is apparent. Why not change to whatever it is you have heard is better?

If you actually read my posts, you would know that I have posted many times that at present E* is the best provider. At least up until perhaps last week when D* turned on a bunch of HD channels and is supposedly going to put fewer channels per transponder than E* in order to have better picture quality. I don't know the status of that.

Two years ago E*'s quality was very good, with some channels being excellent. Since then they have significantly downgraded their HD PQ. I have complained about it here and to E* in hope that perhaps they might improve it.

And, BTW, I do not believe I have ever posted a "grass is greener" post wherein I stated that another provider had better HD PQ than E* while offering a large number of HD channels.
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

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Not so sure about that. A good TV is a good TV. You can tweak it and find a way to make it work well with most any service. If not, then it's not all that great of a set.

The better the TV, the more accurate it will display exactly what is being fed into it. A great source will look fantastic on a great TV, it will look better on a great TV than a good TV.

However if a source is flawed, having more compression artifacts and lower resolution, then those flaws will be in full display on a great TV. To an uncritical eye, the picture from a flawed source may look better on a great TV than on a good TV. However if the owner of the great TV is able to watch material from higher quality sources, say an excellent OTA HD station or from a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player, then when they go back to the flawed source, the differences will be very apparent.

Consider two E* customers, one with a 42" 1280x720 HDTV and the other with a 58" 1920x1080p set. Have both of them watch a 1280x1080 compressed channel. On which set do you think the down-rezzing and compression will be most obvious?
 
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EricBskiVT

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 25, 2007
252
0
I have a tech coming out Friday to check things out. Doesnt any body else experiance this. Or are all of you think HD is supposed to have grainy choppy look to it. This is 2007 HD should look flawless and not like a poor DVD movie
I have a 52" Panasonic RP LCD and my HD picture from E* is great while my OTA picture quality is excellent. I don't have a grainy choppy look or I would be calling for a tech. We've tried to be helpful but there is only so much we can do from here.
 
steve4810

steve4810

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 27, 2006
1,589
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I have a tech coming out Friday to check things out. Doesnt any body else experiance this. Or are all of you think HD is supposed to have grainy choppy look to it. This is 2007 HD should look flawless and not like a poor DVD movie

Nolan, get a clue. Dish HD is never grainy-choppy. If you see grainy-choppy either your eyes, head or equipment is messed up. Have them checked out.

And your snide shots at Dish PQ being crap are pure troll.
 
N

nolan 1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Sep 27, 2007
45
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I understand and appriciate everybodys input and opinions. You guys have been really great and helpful. I guess I will just have to live with the poor HD picture on my 58 inch plasma. Its probably to big for Dish's Downrezzing
 
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richiephx

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 1, 2006
728
0
Phoenix, AZ
I understand and appriciate everybodys input and opinions. You guys have been really great and helpful. I guess I will just have to live with the poor HD picture on my 58 inch plasma. Its probably to big for Dish's Downrezzing

He is probably using rca or coax connector and the resolution in his receiver setup is probably set at 480i or 480p (the default setting)
 
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nolan 1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Sep 27, 2007
45
0
He is probably using rca or coax connector and the resolution in his receiver setup is probably set at 480i or 480p (the default setting)

As i stated before the settings are correct all of them are.

I guess Dish HD just sucks
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

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E* HD picture is soft, but not grainy. At least it isn't grainy when the scene being watched is reasonably well lit. In a low light shot, it can show a lot of macro-blocking and contour mapping, which some might describe as grainy. However if you are watching say a movie on HDNET, or even something like SportsCenter on ESPN, it should not appear grainy.

Likewise if you are watching an OTA HD channel it should not be grainy.

If any of these three examples looks grainy, then you have a setup problem with either your Dish receiver or your HDTV set.
 
kstuart

kstuart

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 5, 2006
5,206
0
Northern California
If you are sitting farther than 8 feet from a 58-inch TV set, the human eye cannot tell the difference between:

- 1280x720
- 1280x1080
- 1440x1080
- 1920x1080

on any 58 inch set, no matter what its native resolution.

When DirecTV some months back, tried to add more HD channels than can be supported by the available bandwidth, they lowered the resolution in order to minimize the effects of the lower bitrate.

The poor PQ that caused the "HD-Lite" name was due to low bitrate, not low resolution. Many consumers became familiar with the difference in still images due to resolution, when they bought digital cameras, so they myth was born that digital video picture quality is primarily due to increased resolution.

But in reality, bitrate is what determines picture quality in most consumer HD setups.
 
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nolan 1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Sep 27, 2007
45
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Well then it must be the low bitrate that dish sends through.
My setup if all right and optimized
 
kstuart

kstuart

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 5, 2006
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Northern California
Well then it must be the low bitrate that dish sends through.
My setup if all right and optimized

But the bitrate on 9477 is not low. Currently, it has 2-3 times as much bitrate as normal, because the space is being saved for the next HD channel additions.

To repeat, if 9477 looks grainy, then either your set needs to be adjusted (as Tom Bombadil mentioned), or you are sitting too close, or you are looking for artifacts rather than watching the program. 9477 is sitting in a half-empty transponder, so it gets quite a bit more bitrate (at the moment) than most other channels. There should not be any problems with that channel.

Just a speculation -

If the cable HD picture was actually too soft, then the picture might have looked better with the shaprness control turned up high. At high resolutions, the pixels are smaller, and so the artifical sharpening looks like added detail.

But, if the set is then connected to a source with more detail, then the added sharpening is too much, and looks "rough" ("grainy" ??).

So, you might try turning down the sharpness setting.

PS Lastly, odd effects can be caused by a loose cable connection anywhere along the path, and also by ground loops and other grounding problems.
 
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nolan 1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Sep 27, 2007
45
0
But the bitrate on 9477 is not low. Currently, it has 2-3 times as much bitrate as normal, because the space is being saved for the next HD channel additions.

To repeat, if 9477 looks grainy, then either your set needs to be adjusted (as Tom Bombadil mentioned), or you are sitting too close, or you are looking for artifacts rather than watching the program. 9477 is sitting in a half-empty transponder, so it gets quite a bit more bitrate (at the moment) than most other channels. There should not be any problems with that channel.

Just a speculation -

If the cable HD picture was actually too soft, then the picture might have looked better with the shaprness control turned up high. At high resolutions, the pixels are smaller, and so the artifical sharpening looks like added detail.

But, if the set is then connected to a source with more detail, then the added sharpening is too much, and looks "rough" ("grainy" ??).

So, you might try turning down the sharpness setting.

PS Lastly, odd effects can be caused by a loose cable connection anywhere along the path, and also by ground loops and other grounding problems.

9477 does in fact look better then the rest of the HD channels, But not great. And I dont have any need to even watch that channel. So the one channel that is full of bitrate is the dumbest HD channel they have in my opinion.
My sharpness is already turned down almost all the way now. Oh ya and I sit 12 ft away from the TV.
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Supporting Founder
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May 5, 2005
3,601
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If you are sitting farther than 8 feet from a 58-inch TV set, the human eye cannot tell the difference between:

- 1280x720
- 1280x1080
- 1440x1080
- 1920x1080

...

But in reality, bitrate is what determines picture quality in most consumer HD setups.

Are those figures for someone with 20/20 vision?

I ask because I have 20/12 vision, i.e, I can discern details at 20' that the normal person can only see at up to 12'.

Oh, and what do you cite as a reference that a person cannot see a difference between 1280x720 vs 1920x1080 on a 58" set at 8'? Are you asserting that even if one threw a 1920x1080 full bandwidth test pattern on the screen that the human eye could not see a difference between a 1280x720 set vs a 1920x1080 set at 8'?

As to the bitrate, yes, it has a tremendous impact on PQ. That's why I mention it (or refer to the same thing by mentioning the compression of the video image) in every discussion I have on PQ.
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
May 5, 2005
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Chicago-Milwaukee Region
BTW, I am in agreement that 1080p does nothing for a lot of sets and home setups. I know people who demand 1080p in 46" sets that they will be watching from 10'. There is no way you will see a difference in that setup.

But when it comes to 58", 60" or more, when watching from 8', then I think it begins to become a factor, at least for some viewers.
 

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