Hopper 3 sucking up all the bandwidth (1 Viewer)

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Sep 27, 2021
10
10
Hartford, CT
OK, so I'm not super technically knowledgeable, but here goes.

We have a Dish Hopper 3 with 3 "Joeys".

We have Frontier DSL internet, the slowest speed possible (Normal download speed approximately 4.8 Mbs). We have a Frontier Communications-provided NVG443B dual band (5Ghz/2.4Ghz) wireless modem router.

Occasionally, when the Dish Hopper is connected to the internet via the modem router, it can intermittently cause the other items on the network to have SUPER slow internet speed, like 0.33 Mbs download speed.......yeah..........ridiculous and not usable.

Usually the DSL service is just fine for why we use the internet.....we don't need to stream movies, just email, internet surfing etc.

We have multiple items linked to the network, but they are never on at the same time. Maybe 3 items below are active at any one time

1 Desktop computer - Ethernet connection
1 desktop computer - wireless connection
1 tablet -wireless connection
1 laptop -wireless connection
1 smartphone -wireless connection
1 wireless security cam -wireless connection

Again, the issue is intermittent, but when internet connection is effected, I will be getting 0.33 Mbs download speed on my laptop.....

If I disconnect the Hopper from the internet (not so easy to do), the speed goes back to near 5 Mbs download speed, so it definately seems to be the Hopper sucking up all the bandwidth.

It's hard to narrow down a time, or specific condition when this happens. I wish there was a setting on the Dish Hopper that would let me see what the Hopper is using the bandwidth for....updating software? Downloading an on-demand movie? etc.

Does the Hopper 3 do routine software updates via the internet?

Just now, there was an On-Demand movie being downloaded. Dish hopper DID show it consuming about 4.68Mbs to download, But it seems that the On-Demand downloading isn't the problem, because when I simultaneously run a internet speed test, it starts off slow-ish (about 1.8Mbs) but it usually slowly increases while the on-demand movie download decreases. My laptop doesn't go to the super slow 0.xx Mbs.

This issue may happen a few times a day, or not at all, but when doing something important online, and the stupid DSL goes down to 0.3 Mbs, it kinda pisses ya off lol.

Frontier Communications was helpless on the phone. So was Dish Network. I've tried selecting different wireless frequencies for some wireless items. I was thinking maybe there was too much wireless 'traffic' on 2.4Ghz so I changed the Hopper to connect to the 5Ghz frequency. Same with laptop, I can easily switch from 2.4Ghz to 5 Ghz. Nope doesn't seem to help.

Obviously if we had 25 Ghz DSL download speed internet I guess it wouldn't be noticeable, but we don't need that.

Thanks in advance for any recommendations. I have scheduled an appointment for Dish Network to come out and maybe replace the Hopper. If they do, and I still have the problem, then it's either the modem/router sucks, or internet speed is just not fast enough for a Dish Hopper and our other items combined.

Wax
 
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arlo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
605
328
North Eastern
I'm reading your post and something is obvious. It seems as if the Hopper/Joey is connecting to something outside your local area network.
You made that clear by stating that detaching it from the network betters your outside connection to the Internet.
DSL is kind of like having the lowest level Mercedes. Same for Satellite Internet. Starlink excepted.

I'm under the assumption that your DSL modem is connected to a wifi router with 2.4 & 5 GHz capability.
I'm not a Hopper/Joey user. And don't really know what outside connection it needs to function.
I'm just accepting you use it to sling satellite channels to other TV's in your house.

You could determine what outside connections that the system is using. Then go into the router configuration web interface and filter them out. That's a pretty easy thing to do actually.
I just don't know the downfalls of doing that.
Does the Hopper/Joey NEED an Internet connection to "live"? Or could it be program guide updates and crap like that?
 

ethanlerma

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 1, 2021
208
293
Texas
Does the Hopper 3 do routine software updates via the internet?
Does the Hopper/Joey NEED an Internet connection to "live"? Or could it be program guide updates and crap like that?
No and No. Both are done over satellite.

I'm just accepting you use it to sling satellite channels to other TV's in your house.
Even if true, pretty unlikely. After authenticating over the internet, Dishanywhere will transfer video over the local network, so it should not pose a problem. While I don't have the means to check anymore, I wouldn't be surprised if it works over dial-up. There is the exception of streamed channels however. Or someone else using his account elsewhere over the internet.

We have a Dish Hopper 3 with 3 "Joeys".
Can you be a little more specific? What model of Joeys? Wireless by chance? (You can look at the while label on the underside/sides).

I wish there was a setting on the Dish Hopper that would let me see what the Hopper is using the bandwidth for....updating software? Downloading an on-demand movie? etc.
There is not, but you can check some things. #1. In the DVR menu, if you select the ondemand/rentals option then highlight items there, it will tell you if it is currently being downloaded and at what speed. So next time it happens it may be a good idea to get in that menu and check all of the items to see if one is currently downloading. #2. In the diagnostic menu (Home X3) you can navigate down to status, then send status on the right. Once you are in there, first option lets you test the internet speed and phone line if connected, so this will tell you the speed that the Hopper is able to achieve, so maybe try running this during the next slowdown? Dunno if it will even be useful but it could provide some insight.


Just to make sure, is anyone on ANY of the boxes watching on demand, live streamed channels (these come over the internet, examples are HBO 314/315 or some international channels in the 800's) or App's that require internet when these slowdowns happen? Even one instance can easily overwhelm the network especially on a cheap router/modem combo unit from an ISP, not because of the internet speed, but the poor implementation of QoS those units have (think of QoS as a function on your router that makes decisions on what devices get priority on the network, among other things). Other then that I cant think of anything else using the bandwidth (unless they started using the internet for Ads or something?).
Another possibility is what Arlo alluded to, are you or anyone else using the sling functionality on your Hopper? (In other words, Dishanywhere).

This may be a little advanced/unnecessary, but if all else fails you could just place the frontier modem in bridge mode and use your own router, my setup consists of a DD-WRT VM on my server (DD-WRT is alternative router software) that I've set up to limit everyone on the network to 5 Mbps per device (300 Mbps service), unless someone needs more then that (you can stream 1080p30/720p60 with that easily on most sites, so only things like the Roku Ultra's get more bandwidth). If you want to pursue this route you can get a Nighthawk R6700 for $80 on amazon and modify it with DD-WRT quite easily. Then set a rule on the Hopper of like 3Mbps or something. Just an idea.
 
Sep 27, 2021
10
10
Hartford, CT
No and No. Both are done over satellite.


Even if true, pretty unlikely. After authenticating over the internet, Dishanywhere will transfer video over the local network, so it should not pose a problem. While I don't have the means to check anymore, I wouldn't be surprised if it works over dial-up. There is the exception of streamed channels however. Or someone else using his account elsewhere over the internet.


Can you be a little more specific? What model of Joeys? Wireless by chance? (You can look at the while label on the underside/sides).


There is not, but you can check some things. #1. In the DVR menu, if you select the ondemand/rentals option then highlight items there, it will tell you if it is currently being downloaded and at what speed. So next time it happens it may be a good idea to get in that menu and check all of the items to see if one is currently downloading. #2. In the diagnostic menu (Home X3) you can navigate down to status, then send status on the right. Once you are in there, first option lets you test the internet speed and phone line if connected, so this will tell you the speed that the Hopper is able to achieve, so maybe try running this during the next slowdown? Dunno if it will even be useful but it could provide some insight.


Just to make sure, is anyone on ANY of the boxes watching on demand, live streamed channels (these come over the internet, examples are HBO 314/315 or some international channels in the 800's) or App's that require internet when these slowdowns happen? Even one instance can easily overwhelm the network especially on a cheap router/modem combo unit from an ISP, not because of the internet speed, but the poor implementation of QoS those units have (think of QoS as a function on your router that makes decisions on what devices get priority on the network, among other things). Other then that I cant think of anything else using the bandwidth (unless they started using the internet for Ads or something?).
Another possibility is what Arlo alluded to, are you or anyone else using the sling functionality on your Hopper? (In other words, Dishanywhere).

This may be a little advanced/unnecessary, but if all else fails you could just place the frontier modem in bridge mode and use your own router, my setup consists of a DD-WRT VM on my server (DD-WRT is alternative router software) that I've set up to limit everyone on the network to 5 Mbps per device (300 Mbps service), unless someone needs more then that (you can stream 1080p30/720p60 with that easily on most sites, so only things like the Roku Ultra's get more bandwidth). If you want to pursue this route you can get a Nighthawk R6700 for $80 on amazon and modify it with DD-WRT quite easily. Then set a rule on the Hopper of like 3Mbps or something. Just an idea.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

1) it's good to know the Hopper doesn't update software via internet, so that idea is out.

2) The model of joeys we have are Joey 3 (not wireless)

3) "Just to make sure, is anyone on ANY of the boxes watching on demand, live streamed channels"
-- We have no streaming channels (unless we're getting free HBO/Cinemax), and yes, I've noticed if we try to watch a streaming movie (when we do have access to it), it slows down internet speed to a crawl.

4) I tested the download speed connection (through diagnostics menu), reached a download speed of 4.86 Mbs (which seems right....that's what my laptop gets on speed tests).

5) "are you or anyone else using the sling functionality on your Hopper? (In other words, Dishanywhere)." - No

I have to think there is a way (through the modem/router) to throttle (limit) the bandwidth of the Hopper.

I noticed on the Hopper menu: Menu/internet settings/Advanced tab/ there is an on/off selection for 'Limit Frequency Scan"

Not sure what that does, and.....naturally....the Hopper user guide doesn't mention it.

"but the poor implementation of QoS those units have (think of QoS as a function on your router that makes decisions on what devices get priority on the network, among other things)."

I guess, maybe the problem is with my Arris NVG443B wireless modem/router. I will see if I can mess with the "QoS" and limit certain devices on the network.

Getting help on the phone from Satellite/phone/internet providers is near impossible. Better solution usually is joining a message board.


Thanks again for the responses arlo and ethanlerma, knowing the Hopper does NOT use bandwidth to update software is a big step in the 'process of elimination'.

;-)
 
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sktrus

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 4, 2020
441
402
Georgetown, Kentucky
If I were you, I would disconnect Internet connection to Hopper, and give up any streaming activity. It is normal that every gadget is struggling with such low speed. Just change wifi password on Hopper to a fake one. Easiest way to do. How much is the next data package from Frontier? You don’t need earth shaking speeds for decent internet connection. 25-30 mbps should satisfy most needs. I use a cell tower with T-Mobile and get roughly 20-40 mbps with their modem/router combo and use close to 16 devices. Laptops,tablets,iPhones,several Amazon speakers, fire stick, Roku. Hopper is connected although I don’t like streaming with Dish. No problem at all.
 
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Sep 27, 2021
10
10
Hartford, CT
If I were you, I would disconnect Internet connection to Hopper, and give up any streaming activity. It is normal that every gadget is struggling with such low speed. Just change wifi password on Hopper to a fake one. Easiest way to do. How much is the next data package from Frontier? You don’t need earth shaking speeds for decent internet connection. 25-30 mbps should satisfy most needs. I use a cell tower with T-Mobile and get roughly 20-40 mbps with their modem/router combo and use close to 16 devices. Laptops,tablets,iPhones,several Amazon speakers, fire stick, Roku. Hopper is connected although I don’t like streaming with Dish. No problem at all.

Thanks sktrus,

Yeah, I've been thinking that might be a step in the near future, just upgrading to the next tier of internet speed. I'm kinda obsessive with things lol, and so I'd like to find the device or the process that causes the problem.....because for 90% of the day....the speed is just fine, and fast enough for our needs.

Another variable is the 2 desktop computers, Laptop, Smartphone, Tablet....not all connected at once....but it's near impossibe to know if they're downloading a system update.....contributing to the problem. However, as I stated earlier, when I disconnect the Hopper 3 from internet (change password or just reboot), speed goes back to normal, so it seems the Hopper 3 is the main issue.




 
Sep 27, 2021
10
10
Hartford, CT
Even one instance can easily overwhelm the network especially on a cheap router/modem combo unit from an ISP, not because of the internet speed, but the poor implementation of QoS those units have

Well, I just got off the phone with my ISP (Frontier Communications), and as I kinda suspected, there is no way with my Arris NVG443B combination wireless modem/router to change priority of bandwidth usage for devices on the network. (QoS settings).
The technician with whom I spoke suggested I would need a separate router for that purpose. I've heard it before, that it's better to have your own router, so I'm thinking I'll have to do that.
Maybe there's nothing 'wrong' with the Hopper 3 (other than the frustrating-as-hell DVR fast forward/reverse feature which never seems to work.....I'll post a seperate topic on that or search for it).

thanks for all the responses. I just want smoking fast 1,000 Mbps download-speed internet for free, that always works! Not too much to ask is it? lol
 
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ethanlerma

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 1, 2021
208
293
Texas
Well, I just got off the phone with my ISP (Frontier Communications), and as I kinda suspected, there is no way with my Arris NVG443B combination wireless modem/router to change priority of bandwidth usage for devices on the network. (QoS settings).
The technician with whom I spoke suggested I would need a separate router for that purpose. I've heard it before, that it's better to have your own router, so I'm thinking I'll have to do that.
Maybe there's nothing 'wrong' with the Hopper 3 (other than the frustrating-as-hell DVR fast forward/reverse feature which never seems to work.....I'll post a seperate topic on that or search for it).

thanks for all the responses. I just want smoking fast 1,000 Mbps download-speed internet for free, that always works! Not too much to ask is it? lol
Just looked at the spec sheet for NVG44x (which is the family the NVG443B seems to belong to) and it lists QoS functionality. So either Frontier locks the option on there modems or you talked to an unknowing tech.
 

arlo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
605
328
North Eastern
Rather strange that Dish cannot at least tell why you would need Internet to use your stuff.
And as expected ISP owned equipment can be hindered in functionality versus it's consume models.
I use many routers with DD-WRT firmware. And there are many without it installed that give you functions that you need.
Just please stay away from Linksys at all costs. Netgear has impressed me recently. I recently bought my second R7000 from a local ad.

Anyway. I just went through 12-some pages of assisting a member here get his LAN sorted out (sigh....finally!).
He was using an ISP rented modem/router. Once he purchased his own Arris cable modem and a proper wifi router and got rid if the ISP owned equipment, his life (and mine) got better.

50 mbps was enough bandwidth for me. But with a 500 gigabyte data limit I was getting capped every few months.
I went to 100 mbps unlimited data and it's enough for me.
 

TheKrell

A mighty and noble race originating on Altair IV.
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 4, 2007
31,636
26,409
Fairfax, VA
Once he purchased his own Arris cable modem and a proper wifi router and got rid if the ISP owned equipment, his life (and mine) got better.
Yeah, I'm worried about that. I have a Cox Business SOHO account. For many years they provided and upgraded cable modems for free. Then I got fed up with my crappy bandwidth and upgraded to 200/20. But the scumbags disappeared and didn't tell me what was wrong until I discovered that I was supposed to supply the modem. So I did, and it has been sterling. Now they want to again give me a new DOCSIS 3.1 modem for free. :rolleyes
 

HipKat

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Aug 25, 2017
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Wax Bean Tycoon
sktrus

To disconnect the Hopper from the Internet, you go to the Internet Settings page (Settings/Internet or Home three times to get to the DIagnostic Screen, then #2 for Internet) then go to Internet Settings and hit Info, Recall on the remote. You'll get a popup asking if you want to clear internet settings.
 
Sep 27, 2021
10
10
Hartford, CT
Just looked at the spec sheet for NVG44x (which is the family the NVG443B seems to belong to) and it lists QoS functionality. So either Frontier locks the option on there modems or you talked to an unknowing tech.

I thoroughly searched the settings of the NVG443B modem/router on the browser 'portal' page, and the only QoS settings available were the following (which was confirmed by my ISP technician)

Just an adjustment for LAN phones, no settings for limiting other wireless device bandwidth. I've gotta get my own router. the Netgear R7000 has been mentioned. I'll check it out.

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Foxbat

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When I had DSL, my download speeds would slow to a crawl when I was uploading Folding results or uploading pictures to Photos in the Cloud. DSL is really ADSL, where the “A” is asynchronous. If your download speed is 5 Mbps, your upload speed is probably 250 Kbps or less. Assuming your Hopper is uploading diagnostic data to Dish via the Internet, a few megabytes of data could take a minute or two.

You have seemed to isolate the Hopper as the culprit. Is there any way to connect your Hopper directly to the Arris router and not use the Wi-Fi? That would also let you put a PC with a pair of Ethernet connections in between and run a packet sniffer like WireShark which could identify the issue.
 
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TheKrell

A mighty and noble race originating on Altair IV.
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Jan 4, 2007
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Fairfax, VA
When I had DSL, my download speeds would slow to a crawl when I was uploading Folding results or uploading pictures to Photos in the Cloud. DSL is really ADSL, where the “A” is asynchronous. If your download speed is 5 Mbps, your upload speed is probably 250 Kbps or less. Assuming your Hopper is uploading diagnostic data to Dish via the Internet, a few megabytes of data could take a minute or two.
I thought ADSL was full duplex. Am I wrong about that?

My first ADSLservice had a jaw-dropping ;) (for the time) 1Mb/s download (throttled) speed from AT&T. I switched to Cavalier Telephone (a CLEC) who offered me technology limited ADLS that got 8Mb/s for half the price. After I moved into my new house and went with Cox Cable for my ISP, I discovered that my old router had an even more jaw-dropping 10Mbps WAN port! Oops.
 
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arlo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
605
328
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I thought ADSL was full duplex. Am I wrong about that?

My first ADSLservice had a jaw-dropping ;) (for the time) 1Mb/s download (throttled) speed from AT&T. I switched to Cavalier Telephone (a CLEC) who offered me technology limited ADLS that got 8Mb/s for half the price. After I moved into my new house and went with Cox Cable for my ISP, I discovered that my old router had an even more jaw-dropping 10Mbps WAN port! Oops.

....as soon as the XYL gets off the phone i'm gonna' log into aol and audio galaxy me some new abba.
oughtta' have it by......tuesday.
 

TheKrell

A mighty and noble race originating on Altair IV.
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Fairfax, VA
That doesn't say whether ADSL is full duplex, or not.
 
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TheKrell

A mighty and noble race originating on Altair IV.
Pub Member / Supporter
Jan 4, 2007
31,636
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Fairfax, VA
OK, since nobody is looking it up, I will. I found this:
ADSL is full duplex, however - like any TCP/IP connection it requires spare bandwidth in order to transmit ACK packets, to acknowledge the data has been received. If you saturate your upload, then its unable to transmit this information - and as such your download will decrease.
That quote is from the second post here: Is my ADSL full-duplex or not? :: Technical Issues :: think broadband
 
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