Hopper/Joey recording buffer when powered off?

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whiteyanderson

SatelliteGuys Family
Original poster
Sep 23, 2007
52
0
North Hollywood, CA
One of the features, I mean maybe THE ONE feature I liked about the DirecTV DVRs was that when the boxes were off, they were keeping a buffer of I think it was the last 2 hours on whatever channel you were tuned to when you powered the box off. I thought it was pretty cool, as sometimes, like tonight, when I'm up working late I could go turn the TV on and if it was something interesting, I could rewind back to the beginning. As long as the beginning was within that 2 hour buffer of course.

Is this an option with the Hopper and Joey? Seems like I remember someone saying there was a trick to doing it, but I can't find the thread. I tried it out last night and I could get it to rewind past the point the show was at when I turned the Joey on, but it was in like frame by frame mode. Obviously that would take forever.

Just wondering if it was possible. Thanks in advance.
 
Nope. The live TV buffer for each H/J is 1 hour. The only way around it is to record. You can always set up recordings from an Internet-connected PC or phone (given that the Hopper is Internet-connected itself.)
 
I thought Dish disabled buffering when their receivers are in "sleep" or standby mode ?

They do.

On the VIP line, sometimes the unit would continue to buffer after a timer fired while the receiver was "off." You could come home, turn "on" the receiver and have the last hour buffer intact. I think this was the "trick" the OP was referring to.

I have not seen this behavior on the Hopper, and considering it is designed to free up tuners if possible for other Joeys/Hoppers I would not expect it (even though I would like it if it did).
 
I seem to recall Dish killed this on the 522/625 and newer DVRs. Speculation was either TiVo-lawsuit related or an effort to reduce HDD failures.


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625 had a 2-hour buffer, so it wasn't killed on that. I just assumed that the 1-hour buffer was because it was an HD receiver (after going from the 625 to 722), since HD content took up more than double the space.
 
On the VIP line, sometimes the unit would continue to buffer after a timer fired while the receiver was "off." You could come home, turn "on" the receiver and have the last hour buffer intact. I think this was the "trick" the OP was referring to.
I have a 722k. I just hit the 'power' button on the remote for 5-10 minutes and had the screensaver on, the one with "tips" and "Your receiver is currently off...". Hit the 'power' button to turn it back on, hit the rewind button, and I got the red 'no' symbol in the upper-right corner.
 
I have a 722k. I just hit the 'power' button on the remote for 5-10 minutes and had the screensaver on, the one with "tips" and "Your receiver is currently off...". Hit the 'power' button to turn it back on, hit the rewind button, and I got the red 'no' symbol in the upper-right corner.

Exactly as I would expect. That would be the normal behavior with no timers involved.
 
Dish implements their buffering differently than both Tivo and Dtv in software, which I've been told doesn't allow for buffering while the box is in standby. I wish it worked all the time too.
 
Dish implements their buffering differently than both Tivo and Dtv in software, which I've been told doesn't allow for buffering while the box is in standby. I wish it worked all the time too.
Except it does buffer in standby after a timer has completed while in standby.
 
I wouldn't think that it would be that hard for Dish to implement standby buffering. However with the ability to set recordings from any Internet-connected PC or phone, I'm not quite sure how useful it would be (for me, anyway.)
 
I think it would be cool if they at least buffered in standby for at least a couple minutes. It would be nice to be able to pause - shut everything down - go to the next room - power up and resume the last channel you were watching via the red button. The way it works now I have to pause something - go to the next room - resume then pause immediately - go back to the first room to shut everything down - go back. Passing video from one room to the next should be more elegant.
 
I wouldn't think that it would be that hard for Dish to implement standby buffering.
There's nothing to implement. It's a matter of uncommenting the lines of code already there. Their DVRs used to this. I distinctly recall the manual for the 522 stating that it is *always* recording and it was. There was always a 1+ hour buffer available.




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There's nothing to implement. It's a matter of uncommenting the lines of code already there. Their DVRs used to this. I distinctly recall the manual for the 522 stating that it is *always* recording and it was. There was always a 1+ hour buffer available.




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Implement = put. "I wouldn't think that it would be that hard for Dish to put in standby buffering." Arguing semantics to sound smart? lol

That being said, I'm not sure how well the standby buffering would work with Hopper, unless when recordings are scheduled or whatever the buffer is automatically released. So that would make the buffer not necessarily reliable. I dunno, I guess the DirecTV customers got used to it, but personally I don't really see the point in a standby buffer. If you don't want to miss something that was on, record it, or leave the receiver on and disable the inactivity timer.
 
Except it does buffer in standby after a timer has completed while in standby.

If a timer fires, the box isn't entirely in standby - there's a routine being executed that tells the IRD to buffer/record the stream, with some padding on each side before the box goes back to full standby. Tivo and Dtv originally used a hardware buffering scheme which were each proprietary. I don't know that that's still the case (I believe Dtv is now a software buffer), but because of the legacy buffering scheme (their customers expecting the box to act that way), they've both kept their buffers going 24/7. They also do their FSCK and cleanup behind the scenes, where as Dish boxes power down to do their maintenance. Dish's hardware used a software solution to buffer, supposedly to avoid legal/patent issues. The software buffer could work 24/7, as it did on a few older boxes, but after the Tivo litigation, I wouldn't expect 24/7 buffer to happen, although could be surprised at some point in the future.
 
This goes back to the 50X days when the HDD's did not spin down. Dish had high HDD failure rates (for them anyway) and good ol' Dave Kummer had explained that the 50X (the only DVR's available in those days) would spin down shortly after being put in standby to increase life of the HDD.

From the 721 and subsequent DVR's, the HDD was/is always spinning, and never to spin down along with not recording to buffer unless it was a timer recording. I think this is just a case of legacy "thinking" or "that's how the HDD/buffer has been handled for about a decade; there is no reason to change the software or manner of buffer in standby when there seem to be far more important features customers demand," sort of thinking. While the HDD is surely spinning, one could argue that the slider and arms involved in writing to the HDD are given a good rest from constantly, never ceasing to write as this is what can shorten the life of an HDD, especially writing from two + tuners 24/7, this has a hand in decreasing HDD life even further. In past Tech Forum some years ago, Mark Jackson confirmed they had a prototype multiple tuner DVR (more than 2), and they were experiencing very high failure rate of the HDD's. However, today, HDD's seem bee able to survive being beat up by 3 live HD streams, 1 download occuring, and multiple playback of content to different clients, and DirecTV's 5 tuner DVR seems to say something for today HDD's. But I would be willing to say that the 5 tuner DVR's HDD is NOT going to last as long as some would expect compared to a 2 tuner DVR.

Yes, TiVo constantly buffers and spins, but this would also seem to allow for the most reliable experience for TiVo's multi-room viewing (S2 & S3) and streaming (S4) features: always fully alive and active arms and writers when accessing that DVR from another room.

Bottom line, there may be technical reasons to always buffer (making it EASIER or MORE RELIABLE for specific feature) or a consequence or just plain a preference, for whatever reason. Of course, during any recording, Dish DVR's also record the other tuner to the buffer.

On occasion, it was nice that my TiVo had been buffering (only a 30 minute buffer on TiVo), but most often it either wasn't enough of a buffer to catch the entire program or it was tuned to a channel I didn't want buffered. So, it really isn't such "feature" after all. It couldn't automatically re-tune to the channels I would always like buffered. That would be a record timer, the same solution for a Dish DVR, and TiVo does not tout the constant buffering as anything at all. We TiVo owners would take an hour on the buffer, even if it stopped buffering in standby. IMHO, this buffering in standby is a "whatever" function that, one would think, is nowhere near a make or break function. I would think that Manual Timers, DishPass, OTA recording and guide info support, saving our preferences and timers in the cloud, much better interface and browsing for on-line content (it is a DISASTER now), and even a 4th tuner on the Hopper would be real features that would enhance the Hopper/Joey system more than any buffering in standby. Buffering in standby would be fine after perfecting things. Of course, a buffer in standby software update would surely mess-up some other higher and more important feature as a consequence of Dish's software updates :).
 

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