How Come Dish won't carry PBS- HD?

[kstuart]

Essentially, the difference between the local Fox or ABC HD and the local PBS HD is quantity. As mentioned by kvnfl above, the local PBS channels have added subchannels, some of which are simply feeds of national channels and some are additional local channels. Also, all other networks only allow one affiliate, while PBS does not have such restrictions, for example, the SF Bay Area has 4-5 PBS channels, most of which are in HD.

The STELA bill signed a few weeks ago states:

- Dish must add the local PBS HD stations for any new HD markets they add, from now on.
- Dish must add half the local PBS HD stations they are missing by the end of the year, and the other half by the end of 2011.
- No requirement for Dish to carry any subchannels at all.
- If Dish and PBS come to an agreement by August 5th, then that nullifies the above requirements.

 

[kstuart]

Keep in mind, that 4 channels in one frequency slot means no HD. You can call it HD, but it ain't.

It all depends on how the bandwidth is allocated.

The bandwidth available is 18M. If each of the three SD channels is 3M, that is decent quality and if the HD channels is 720p, that requires half the bandwidth of a 1080 channel, and should look fine for most purposes at 9M.

And, in fact, the above is what KCET Los Angeles does (although the specific rates are just guesses).

Remember that PBS is usually showing people sitting and talking, or people standing and singing, or canyons that haven't moved in millions of years, in other words, no action movies or sports, so they really don't need a lot of video bitrate.

 

[Juan]

I think PBS station are owned by individual "foundations" rather corporations..making it more difficult to negociate

 

[Bobby]

Some are owned by foundations some are incorporated.

 

[JimK2]

Then how is D* and the local cable companies able to deliver PBS in HD? They most certainly would have the same hassles but succeed in having PBS in HD.

Also why no HD of the local CW station? I'm in the Philly DMA.

Ron

Because the feed originated within the dma

 

[whatchel1]

PBS is 1080i

It all depends on how the bandwidth is allocated.

The bandwidth available is 18M. If each of the three SD channels is 3M, that is decent quality and if the HD channels is 720p, that requires half the bandwidth of a 1080 channel, and should look fine for most purposes at 9M.

And, in fact, the above is what KCET Los Angeles does (although the specific rates are just guesses).

Remember that PBS is usually showing people sitting and talking, or people standing and singing, or canyons that haven't moved in millions of years, in other words, no action movies or sports, so they really don't need a lot of video bitrate.

I don't know of any PBS that tuns 720p. They are 1080i.

 

[JohnH]

IIRC, all PBS negotiations are done by CPB not the locals.
Many of them have local HD origination.
KCPT here in KC has 3 subs none of which show the same program as another at the same time.
1- is HD
2- shows 16 X 9 full screen and 4 X 3 full height. Maybe coming from a FOX Box. Looks good on my TV.
3- shows Create in SD. 16 X 9 is never chopped just reduced to fit horizontal.

 

[mitchflorida]

Not to quibble, but PBS has some amazing nature documentaries that rival National Geographic .. there isn't that much "talking head" programming in prime time.

 

[whatchel1]

Don't think so

IIRC, all PBS negotiations are done by CPB not the locals.
Many of them have local HD origination.
KCPT here in KC has 3 subs none of which show the same program as another at the same time.
1- is HD
2- shows 16 X 9 full screen and 4 X 3 full height. Maybe coming from a FOX Box. Looks good on my TV.
3- shows Create in SD. 16 X 9 is never chopped just reduced to fit horizontal.

Where do you get this info. CPB only provides programing not operate the stations. Some states have single bodies that can but most do not.

 

[HDRoberts]

Not to quibble, but PBS has some amazing nature documentaries that rival National Geographic .. there isn't that much "talking head" programming in prime time.

No one is disputing that. The point is just that there are many complicating factors that have slowed Dish from rolling them out.

-Dish has focused on the higher rated big 4 in nearly every DMA
-Many DMAs have multiple PBS affiliates
-Most PBS channels have many subchannels they want carried
-PBS stations are not owned by a single corporation such that Dish does not just deal with a single point of contact.

Dish is dealing with these issues, but it just takes time.

 

[kstuart]

Not to quibble, but PBS has some amazing nature documentaries that rival National Geographic .. there isn't that much "talking head" programming in prime time.

Those are still not continual high bitrate.

And Nature is only once a week. There is Frontline (talking heads), Pavarotti (singing heads), documentary movie on alternate lifestyles (talking heads). Boston Pops, Antique Roadshow (heads, heads), etc.

 

[kstuart]

I don't know of any PBS that tuns 720p. They are 1080i.

KCET, the main PBS in Los Angeles and much of Southern California is 720p.

 

[whatchel1]

You sure of that?

KCET, the main PBS in Los Angeles and much of Southern California is 720p.

I just emailed them to ask. I see no reason for them to do that if they are using 2nd gen encoders for their transmitter. With the new encoders they can do 1080i at 12mb on the HD and 480i at 3 mb on the 3 SD channels and still have room for a data feed. The 2nd gen encoders have VBR so that it can shift the bits from the 4 diff feeds to give a good picture.

 

[TheKrell]

KCET, the main PBS in Los Angeles and much of Southern California is 720p.

Same here with WETA in the Washington DC area.

 

[whatchel1]

These 2 stations must have the 1st gen encoders and haven't bothered to change them out. That means that everything that they are getting from PBS in HD is being downconverted from 1080i which is what PBS sends via sar.

 

[TheKrell]

These 2 stations must have the 1st gen encoders and haven't bothered to change them out.

WETA was 1080i before switching to 720p, so that doesn't sound right. They had 4 SD subchannels before the switch to 720p, and still do now. One of these subchanels is an SD version of the HD channel (why?) and most if not all of the time, widescreen SD material is broadcast picture-framed. :rant:

I have communicated to the station, and to their credit somebody always answers. Unfortunately she always says, basically, "That's the way we do it and we don't intend to change. But I'll send your request/complaint on to engineering anyhow."

 

[whatchel1]

management had something to do w/ that

WETA was 1080i before switching to 720p, so that doesn't sound right. They had 4 SD subchannels before the switch to 720p, and still do now. One of these subchanels is an SD version of the HD channel (why?) and most if not all of the time, widescreen SD material is broadcast picture-framed. :rant:

I have communicated to the station, and to their credit somebody always answers. Unfortunately she always says, basically, "That's the way we do it and we don't intend to change. But I'll send your request/complaint on to engineering anyhow."

I don't care what they said. the management forced that in some way. No eng in his right mind would ever do that w/o being told he had to.

 

[TalonDancer]

......The STELA bill signed a few weeks ago states:

- Dish must add the local PBS HD stations for any new HD markets they add, from now on.
- Dish must add half the local PBS HD stations they are missing by the end of the year, and the other half by the end of 2011.
- No requirement for Dish to carry any subchannels at all.
- If Dish and PBS come to an agreement by August 5th, then that nullifies the above requirements.

Translation: Don't get your hopes up for Dish adding PBS HD channels in your area any time soon.

And in case you doubt it -- look at the local channels being added by Dish since the passage of STELA 2010.

Dish and Direct now have 6-18 months to lobby to avoid adding any more PBS HD than they absolutely have to. Whining about capacity issues worked the last time.

Talon Dancer

 

[dishrich]

I don't know of any PBS that tuns 720p. They are 1080i.

So is KETC-9 St. Louis, w/3 subs; same thing with WTTW-11 Chicago.

BTW, DirecTV just added yet ANOTHER HD PBS out of Chicago, WYCC-20 today...

 

[reddice]

And you believe with a roof antenna only 4 miles from the esb I can't even get wnet reliable. One day it can be in the 70s and the next day it is borderline or weak and just breaks up bad. Go to the avs forums under ota NYC reception threat where I do much complaining over this.

Even the other local PBS stations ota are unreliable. I just wish dish would wake up and carry at least wnet in hd as there ota signal reliablity is horrible.