How to get HD 3d Pop and video/film discussion (1 Viewer)

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Joewee

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Aug 9, 2005
128
0
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Not sure where to post this. Mod can move as you see fit.

My whole beliefs where turned upside down when I bought this tv. I used
to think that I had to spend a ton of money, get 1080P, get the
tv professionally calibrated for $300 and
have a high contrast ratio to get the 3d pop effect but when
I bought a Sony 55" Bravia SXRD RPTV (KDS-55A3000 )
for only $999 (open item at best buy, brag...brag...)
and it has what I have been looking for, for awhile. The 3d
pop that you see in displays at Best Buy and other stores.
Here is my findings so far.
1. I always thought that to get the 3d pop effect, best buy
and other stores had the televisions professionally calibrated etc...
and the TV's they always used were 40" LCD TV's that sold for
$2000 to $3000. Not being an expert I assumed it must be something
in the more expensive tv's, i.e. very high contrast ratio's, the 1080P
etc....
2. This is not the case. I don't even know what the contrast ratio is on my
t.v. and I don't think it is very high. I was very surprised to watch some
of my archived HD movies from my hard drive, Raiders of the lost ark, Harry
Potter and Pirates of the Carribean. I was pleasantly surprised to see that
all of these had the 3d POP effect and pristine picture despite the fact that
they were recorded off of Dish Network (Lower HD bandwidth than Blu Ray
and HD DVD). The only difference I saw was fast moving action in Transformers
had pixelation, this was the only downside to the Dishnetwork lower bandwidth.
Of course my Blu Ray discs did the same without any pixelation.
3. In reading about this TV and the settings what appears to be the key to getting
the 3d POP effect is My Sony's "Motion Enhancer feature" which is Sony's version of the
new craze in TV, 120Hz de-judder processing. Other televisions have the same technology
but call it something different. Sony calls it Motion Flow, Samsung's is dubbed Movie Plus,
Sharp's is TrueD, and Toshiba's is Film Stabilization, and some work better than others.
Mitsubishi, for , calls its 120Hz processing "Smooth 120Hz,"

Conculsions:

If you are intrigued by the 3d pop effect you see in Electronic Stores on HD Tv's then
the main thing you need to look for when purchasing the TV is some sort of 120 HZ processing
and a dejuddering process.

Now this whole thing brings up a personal preference debate. Many argue that it makes
film look too much like video, and makes it appear in scenes as if someone is next to a
green screen and it appears fakey. I am undecided yet as I have only had the tv for one
day and need to watch it for awhile. So far though I really like having the 3d POP effect.
and with my sony I can turn off the features if I so choose in the future.
Informative Link here:
Six things you need to know about 120Hz LCD TVs - Fully Equipped - CNET reviews

This also makes me question the HD Light debate as all of the recorded
Dishnetwork HD Movies had the same pristine picture quality other than
the mentioned pixelation in fast moving of Transformers.

What is everyone elses thoughts?
 
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steve4810

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 27, 2006
1,589
0
Have you considered seeing a professional?

(Not K. I'm talking about the OP.)
 
Last edited:

abricko

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 12, 2006
559
0
Greater Los Angeles area.
3D pop... Sigh... I wish people would give up on these buzz words.

The 3D pop you're referring to is usually a result of overly saturated overly bright (not natural) images on a TV. When you spent the money to (i assume) properly calibrate your TV the end result was not giving you that (IMHO) terrible POP effect. What it should've done is give you proper contrast and brightness along with adjusted color for your room...

If you were to give that calibrated setting a chance, though I'm sure by now you've changed the settings (hopefully you wrote them down) you'll find that over time you'll appreciate the extra tone detail (deep black levels) and your viewing experience will be MUCH better.

You'll also save your eyeballs from burning due to the factory 3D Pop setting that most tv's come preprogrammed with!
 

Dishlover

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 27, 2006
209
0
I just had a discussion with those that prefer a protective screen on their sets, claim it "enhances" the picture. Contrast ratio is a sirens call, a lot of times to the detriment of other aspects of picture quality.
 

gary08

SatelliteGuys Family
May 19, 2005
50
0
Not sure where to post this. Mod can move as you see fit.

My whole beliefs where turned upside down when I bought this tv. I used
to think that I had to spend a ton of money, get 1080P, get the
tv professionally calibrated for $300 and
have a high contrast ratio to get the 3d pop effect but when
I bought a Sony 55" Bravia SXRD RPTV (KDS-55A3000 )
for only $999 (open item at best buy, brag...brag...)
and it has what I have been looking for, for awhile. The 3d
pop that you see in displays at Best Buy and other stores.
Here is my findings so far.
1. I always thought that to get the 3d pop effect, best buy
and other stores had the televisions professionally calibrated etc...
and the TV's they always used were 40" LCD TV's that sold for
$2000 to $3000. Not being an expert I assumed it must be something
in the more expensive tv's, i.e. very high contrast ratio's, the 1080P
etc....
2. This is not the case. I don't even know what the contrast ratio is on my
t.v. and I don't think it is very high. I was very surprised to watch some
of my archived HD movies from my hard drive, Raiders of the lost ark, Harry
Potter and Pirates of the Carribean. I was pleasantly surprised to see that
all of these had the 3d POP effect and pristine picture despite the fact that
they were recorded off of Dish Network (Lower HD bandwidth than Blu Ray
and HD DVD). The only difference I saw was fast moving action in Transformers
had pixelation, this was the only downside to the Dishnetwork lower bandwidth.
Of course my Blu Ray discs did the same without any pixelation.
3. In reading about this TV and the settings what appears to be the key to getting
the 3d POP effect is My Sony's "Motion Enhancer feature" which is Sony's version of the
new craze in TV, 120Hz de-judder processing. Other televisions have the same technology
but call it something different. Sony calls it Motion Flow, Samsung's is dubbed Movie Plus,
Sharp's is TrueD, and Toshiba's is Film Stabilization, and some work better than others.
Mitsubishi, for , calls its 120Hz processing "Smooth 120Hz,"

Conculsions:

If you are intrigued by the 3d pop effect you see in Electronic Stores on HD Tv's then
the main thing you need to look for when purchasing the TV is some sort of 120 HZ processing
and a dejuddering process.

Now this whole thing brings up a personal preference debate. Many argue that it makes
film look too much like video, and makes it appear in scenes as if someone is next to a
green screen and it appears fakey. I am undecided yet as I have only had the tv for one
day and need to watch it for awhile. So far though I really like having the 3d POP effect.
and with my sony I can turn off the features if I so choose in the future.
Informative Link here:
Six things you need to know about 120Hz LCD TVs - Fully Equipped - CNET reviews

This also makes me question the HD Light debate as all of the recorded
Dishnetwork HD Movies had the same pristine picture quality other than
the mentioned pixelation in fast moving of Transformers.

What is everyone elses thoughts?

Hey,
if your happy with what you have then good for you!
Everyone sees things in there own way, so.....
Enjoy your "3D pop"!
 

Joewee

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Aug 9, 2005
128
0
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
3D pop... Sigh... I wish people would give up on these buzz words.

The 3D pop you're referring to is usually a result of overly saturated overly bright (not natural) images on a TV. When you spent the money to (i assume) properly calibrate your TV the end result was not giving you that (IMHO) terrible POP effect. What it should've done is give you proper contrast and brightness along with adjusted color for your room...

If you were to give that calibrated setting a chance, though I'm sure by now you've changed the settings (hopefully you wrote them down) you'll find that over time you'll appreciate the extra tone detail (deep black levels) and your viewing experience will be MUCH better.
!

Fellas, '---Big sigh--- ----deeeeep breath----

The 3d pop effect has nothing to do with the brightness and oversaturated
images. As stated it only has to do with the aformentioned motion enhance
feature and 120hz. I can and have easily turned it off and the picture is still
pristene and natural even if I change the color, sharpness settings etc... As stated by Cnet, this tv was their editors choice
award for the most natural colors out of all of tv's they tested. For those than't
aren't aware the 3d pop effect is simply the picture, in some parts, having a very
3d type effect when panning and moving.
 

Rlanham

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 22, 2004
281
4
.
1. I always thought that to get the 3d pop effect, best buy and other stores had the televisions professionally calibrated etc...

Confidential Best Buy HDTV calibrated settings:

Contrast = 50
Brightness = 100
Color = 0
Tint = 0
Sharpness = 0
 

BigTetto

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 14, 2007
67
0
Manchester, CT
Jowee, knowingly or not, you have hit upon some hot-button issues with your post.

The "Electronic Store" look : This one gets people rabid for a few reasons. Like people have mentioned, sets tend to be overly bright, to try and get unknowing customers to say "ooh". Another reason is that people rarely take their TV's home and watch with dozens of halogen lights hanging from the ceiling. Did you check the settings on all the TV's that you see there? 120Hz (or any other setting) may not be what you think it is unless you check. Also, the connections at the store may be different than what you are using at home (ie, component vs HDMI). The point being there are a lot of variables to consider here.

The TV - If you are happy with your TV (ANY HDTV is better than SDTV, and you sure got a good deal on it), then good for you and continue to enjoy it. That said, that CNet review you mentioned said that the TV is the best rear projection TV that they have tested. I don't want to get in to a holy war here, but you'll also find that CNet speaks particularly high of certain LCD TV's, and especially recent generations of Panasonic and Pioneer Kuro plasmas. Granted, good luck finding one for $999.

3D Pop : A hard effect to describe - personally, I've never heard it depending on 120Hz processing, but I don't know everything so maybe I just don't know. I had heard it described before in terms of color accuracy and contrast ratio, but even then I don't know that I could say "Aha! That's it!".

Then you mention HD-lite and that's a whoooole other bag of worms that's impossible to talk about rationally, but especially in light of all the other variables in getting what you see to your screen.

You've only had the TV for a few days now... so, start to get to know it a bit more intimately.
- Try some different settings
- Refer to CNet and sites like AVSForum where you can find other owners of the same TV
- Take everything you read with a grain of salt
- Find the picture that YOU like.

-Mike
 

Joewee

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Guru
Aug 9, 2005
128
0
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Jowee, knowingly or not, you have hit upon some hot-button issues with your post.

The "Electronic Store" look : This one gets people rabid for a few reasons. Like people have mentioned, sets tend to be overly bright, to try and get unknowing customers to say "ooh". Another reason is that people rarely take their TV's home and watch with dozens of halogen lights hanging from the ceiling. Did you check the settings on all the TV's that you see there? 120Hz (or any other setting) may not be what you think it is unless you check. Also, the connections at the store may be different than what you are using at home (ie, component vs HDMI). The point being there are a lot of variables to consider here.

The TV - If you are happy with your TV (ANY HDTV is better than SDTV, and you sure got a good deal on it), then good for you and continue to enjoy it. That said, that CNet review you mentioned said that the TV is the best rear projection TV that they have tested. I don't want to get in to a holy war here, but you'll also find that CNet speaks particularly high of certain LCD TV's, and especially recent generations of Panasonic and Pioneer Kuro plasmas. Granted, good luck finding one for $999.

3D Pop : A hard effect to describe - personally, I've never heard it depending on 120Hz processing, but I don't know everything so maybe I just don't know. I had heard it described before in terms of color accuracy and contrast ratio, but even then I don't know that I could say "Aha! That's it!".

Then you mention HD-lite and that's a whoooole other bag of worms that's impossible to talk about rationally, but especially in light of all the other variables in getting what you see to your screen.

You've only had the TV for a few days now... so, start to get to know it a bit more intimately.
- Try some different settings
- Refer to CNet and sites like AVSForum where you can find other owners of the same TV
- Take everything you read with a grain of salt
- Find the picture that YOU like.

-Mike

Mike,
Thanks for the informative post. I guess I gave too much information in
my original post as people tended to respond to my bragging of my purchase rather than the reason for my post which was:
1. to inform people who are interested in getting the 3d pop on their tv, what to acutally spend their money on. The T.V. I bought acutally had a terrible picture in the store and was along
a bank of other tv's that best buy has a poor display of overcompressed
video on. The price and the CNET Editors choice where the reason I choose to purchase the TV, not the show room picture. To expand on brightness/contrast settings etc.. I have toyed with several and set it up with several of the settings people have posted on the internet, including CNET's settings, and although the picture varies, with the motion enhance on, it continues to have the 3d pop effect.

2. Secondly, the other main reason for the post was to open a discussion about the video vs film look, as the 3d pop effect tends to make the picture look more like video than film. As I mentioned I am still not sure if I like the 3d pop effect. and, after watching a couple of movies, I may, in the long run, leave the motion enhance off, but it is still nice to have if I want it.
 

KAB

SatelliteGuys Master
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Sep 20, 2005
20,562
3,894
Indy
Mike,

2. Secondly, the other main reason for the post was to open a discussion about the video vs film look, as the 3d pop effect tends to make the picture look more like video than film. As I mentioned I am still not sure if I like the 3d pop effect. and, after watching a couple of movies, I may, in the long run, leave the motion enhance off, but it is still nice to have if I want it.
Having spent 16 yrs in commercial film production, the 3D Pop is something I would avoid at all costs. let alone spend more money for it. Film should look like film. Video should look like Film, and today it can. So again, it's of no interest to me.
 

Dishlover

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 27, 2006
209
0
The motion enhancement is to fight motion blur. More resolution results in a more 3d look. My CRT-RPTV has a response time of 1.5ms resulting in no motion blur and a more lifelike (3D) picture. 120hz not needed.
 
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