Insane Dish Hardware Upgrade via Phone Conversation?

[dishcomm]

The audit team acts independently from the rest of DISH. IF you have your receivers turned off for a failed audit , the csrs and techs can't even help you. They just refer you to the audit number. These people treat you like you are guilty of stacking ,even if you aren't. THis one department causes more hurt to DISH because of churn, then stackers do. I don't know of too many people who like to be treated as criminals , when they are paying their bills on time and are only guilty of not having their receivers plugged into a phone line.

If DISH wanted to prevent this problem they could approach it this way. When new subs are first installed , they are given an agreement to keep all receivers plugged into a phone line or they will have all additional receivers turned off after a certain number of days. So when they install , the installers should go ahead and plug them into a phone line. The receivers should not be allowed to be activated unless they are plugged into a phone or ethernet line. Once they are installed and they become unplugged from the phone or ethernet line ,the receivers start flashing the message that your receiver needs to be plugged into a phone/ethernet line or this receiver will be turned off, they get a week to 2 weeks and then it will turn itself off and lock out till DISH can turn them back on at a fee. It is a simple software thing that they could download to all receivers and it could prevent the need for an audit team. For people with no phone line or ethernet connections, they will not allow them to have extra receivers after the first. Warn all customers upfront of the new rules and send out letters to all existing subs.

All receivers used for rvs etc , should be listed as such and proof of this ownership should be on file with DISH and they should not be part of this agreement.

in a perfect world yes, you may have apoint. BUt if there is no land line then what?
Until a land based phone line becomes a prerequisite to leasing satellite equpiment your theory is moot.

 

[dishcomm]

The part I think many of you are missing out on is MAYBE they are losing EXACTLY the customers they WANT to lose. I don't know for sure. I DO know that many companies make strategic decisions to lose a certain part of their customer base.

I'm just sayin...

The OP makes some weird statements. For instance, he/she doesn't have time to perform the task they are asking him/her to perform, BUT he/she is worried about their lack of a signal. If you have time to watch a program, surely you have time to perform a simple task. Right?

I agree it could be handled differently, but I'm sure THEY have a lot more experience dealing with their clients than you and I do.

perhaps. but would it not be prudent to make up for the subs they lose by gaining new ones.
Hence the number 102,000. That is the net subscriber loss Dish suffered in 2008

 

[dishcomm]

I agree; and whats the big deal about being audited if your equipment is being legitimately used. I haven't had a phone landline in over two years, but have both of my receivers hooked by the homeplug and although I may get a message now and then that it did not connect, generally it will connect up in the next couple days.

Perhaps the people whom are screaming the most about the audit nazi are in fact the subs whom are quite possibly account stacking with either a relative or a second home.

One last point, if you are account stacking, you are stealing service and the legimate subs are paying more because of that fact.

That is not the point. The issue here as I see it is the intrusive and demanding nature of the phone call.
You make assumptions you have no right making.

 

[Stargazer]

What about the people that dont have a phone at all? No cell phone, no landline? What then? Can't borrow a cell phone because there is no cell service out here. I guess you can't get Dish Network if you dont have phone service or broadband. If someone is in that situation then you better go with Directv or cable (if cable is available in your area).

 

[dishcomm]

What about the people that dont have a phone at all? No cell phone, no landline? What then? Can't borrow a cell phone because there is no cell service out here. I guess you can't get Dish Network if you dont have phone service or broadband. If someone is in that situation then you better go with Directv or cable (if cable is available in your area).

I guess they don't get to be satellite customers. That is of course if I read this guy right.
Apparently the one who suggested phone connex be required for multiple receivers in a home did not think of this.
Now he will come back with "oh so few people have no phone it doesn't matter".
And of course his proposal still does not address the cell phone only non- internet home.

 

[Islandguy43]

What about the people that dont have a phone at all? No cell phone, no landline? What then?

I imagine the audit team won't be calling you then.

 

[Islandguy43]

My last piece on this.

One final thing. Has anyone just told the audit team politely that they are more than welcome to send someone, out at their expense to verify the receiver themselves. Then send a email to ceo@echostar.com to complain. The ceo office will most likely more than happy to assist you with the audit and will probably give you something for your time and inconvenience.

 

[mike123abc]

It sounds like the audit department needs to be more up front. It sounds like they were trying to do an audit without saying what they are doing. They probably are forced to do this since people would all be too busy and ask if they could call back shortly, then they would run over to moms house grab the receiver and run it back for the audit. Of course once TV is cut off (as in this case) there is nothing to prevent them from rounding up the receivers and then calling in to have the audit and service restored.

Dish auditors should be upfront with the person they are auditing. Tell them they are doing an audit and will have to do the audit to keep the service working. They should be upfront and allow appointments if needed (i.e. call when my spouse is home). They should also be up front and tell the customer that the service will be cut at a certain time (like 48 hours) if the audit is not completed.

But, saying all that I would probably consider dropping Dish if they tried to audit me when I was out of town and I lost all my DVR events!

 

[Pepper]

Just connect all your receivers to slingboxes. Problem solved (although very expensive solution).

 

[Sammy033]

That's actually a horrible idea.

Then the idea would be to make it relatively painless enough that the costs can be passed along to the consumers without too much of a long term backlash. No question it would difficult and it wouldnt be cheap. But its not too different than say the phone company spending a ton of money to rewire neighborhoods and all the equpiment that goes with it... then having customers pay for it. If this kind of thing needed to be done and there was no choice in the matter, to simply stay in business the company would do it. Either that or it can say 'we cant do it' and shut down the business.

American car companies had this kind of 'we cant do it' attitude for many years because among other things it would have required too much money and hurt profits. Didnt take long for them to lose the market to all but the types of cars other foreign companies simply chose not to make. If they still commanded the markets like they once did its less likely that you and I would be shoveling them money.

 

[jacmyoung]

For the OP's specific situation I agree the usual audit rule back fired. But it is usually not an issue in a normal audit, we had such calls back several years ago, just went to each room and reported the numbers off the receivers and all done in a few minutes.

BTW I do not agree DISH audit team lied. They used a term so people do not anticipate the call and be prepared to defeat the audit.

 

[klegg]

BTW I do not agree DISH audit team lied. They used a term so people do not anticipate the call and be prepared to defeat the audit.

I guess this was really my point. It's a slippery slope. I understand the OP's frustration, but there's always two sides to a story OR a situation. The situation is there IS big problem with piracy and stacking. This story reflects how these "situations" make it bad for the rest of us.

Like someone posted earlier, I'm sure there is some pretty stringent guidelines for who MIGHT fall within this category. I've been with E* for prolly 12-15yrs and have NEVER had a call from the audit dept.

Again, I know it stinks, but they have to have some sort of check for the "situation".

It's hard to be objective about it when you are the one who's being inconvenienced and it's easy to be the devil's advocate when you're NOT being inconvenienced...

 

[MikeD-C05]

in a perfect world yes, you may have apoint. BUt if there is no land line then what?
Until a land based phone line becomes a prerequisite to leasing satellite equpiment your theory is moot.

Presently if you have no phone or ethernet line, DISH will charge you $5.00 per receiver after the first one. So if you have 2 extra receivers after the first one that is free, you would pay the following;

2 x 5.00 =10.00 No phone line connection.
2 x 5.00 =10.00 for additional sd receivers/lease fees.
(2 x 7.00=14.00 for additional hd receivers /lease fees.)
2 x 5.98 =11.96 for dvr fees if the receivers are dvrs.

Lets add this all up and assume the sub has dvr advantage pack and 2 extra hd receivers and they are both hd dvrs and they are not plugged into a phone line or ethernet line.

1 st DVr receiver -FREE
2nd Dvr recevier - 5.00 no phone connection
3rd Dvr receiver - 5.00 no phone connection
Dvr receiver fees -2 x 5.98 =11.96
Lease/additional receiver fees- 2 x 7.00=14.00
----------------------------------------------------
$35.96 in additional fees to NOT have a phone line or ethernet connection with two extra dvr receivers.

Now how many subs do you know that want to pay that kind of money to NOT have a phone line connection? For the price of 10.00 a month you can have a basic land line -no frills or extras and unlimited local calling. The very price of the basic land line would pay for the two extra receivers for the no phone line connection fee and YOU would still gain unlimited local calling for your area. Guess which one I have at my house?

So you see DISH is charging subs 5.00 for each receiver after the first that is not connected to a phone or ethernet connection. They also limit new subs to 4 tuners to a customer. So you can have either 4 single receivers,or a dual tuner dvr and either another dual tuner dvr or two single receivers. Either way you are limited to 4 tuners either way you go.

For those who have the phone line or cell phone line down as their contact number ,and don't have their receivers plugged into the line after the first one, you will get audit calls from now till you plug in the receivers and you will still pay the extra $5.00 per receiver not plugged in after the first. You run the risk of losing your extra receivers for EVER if you fail the audit & or sharing your account with other people.

The only thing I am advocating is being up front with subs and telling them of the rules and telling them of the consequences of not complying. Also making the extra receivers cut off by DISH automatically , for not plugging them in to a phone line after a time frame of 2 weeks with flashing messages on the receivers warning them of impeding deactivation , eliminates the need for the audit team to call and harrase people at their homes at odd hours. EIther way DISH is causing churn with their after the fact, REACTIVE, DISH audit team tactics that are causing churn today, and preventing subs in the future, due to negative word of mouth from those subs who churn because of it. My way is a way of cutting out the middle man, but still accomplishing the DISH goal of preventing stacking or sharing of accounts, without the negative reactions from subs who churn and spread negative word of mouth to all they know because of the audit team.

 

[Awohar]

You keep missing the point that I have made time and time again. DISH does NOT allow you to have more than one receiver not plugged into a phone line or ethernet line. So if you don't comply You will get a call from the Audit police that will test you, to see if you do indeed have all your receivers in the same house . THey will also tell you that you can avoid FUTURE Audit calls if you will get a phone or ethernet line plugged into your receivers. IF you fail the audit YOU will be limited to ONE sat receiver on your account and they will not be allowed to ever , ever be turned on again. So either way DISH is limiting subs to one sat receiver if you aren't plugged into the phone /ethernet line. Many subs haven't been called yet , but they will eventually get to you if they haven't so far.

So since the new DISH policy about ;The first receiver does Not have to be hooked to a phone /ethernet line that went into effect last month, if you would tell all subs UP FRONT that you will only be allowed one sat receiver( single or dual tuner) if you don't have a phone line or ethernet line plugged into the second, third or fourth receivers, they will have to make the decision, to either install one or the other , or will do without the second,third or fourth receiver. THis is a more adult approach that tells subs upfront that DISH does not stand for Piracy /Stacking accounts and there is never a need to use the audit police again.

The difference in my approach is to be PRO-active and upfront, where DISH 's current approach is RE-active and causes more churn, after the fact due to negative, customer reaction and prevents more new subs in the future , due to negative word of mouth from the churning subs ,due to their reaction to the dish audit team. Both approaches accomplish the same goal -get your receivers plugged into a phone line and prevent stacking. Mine does it without negative audit teams who cause present churn and prevent future subs ,because of churning subs telling everyone they know how bad the DISH audit team is to them. Which approach would you rather have ?

better model is simply to build a 4 tuner receiver. that will meet lease tuner limit. then if customer wants more rooms than that, they have to purchase and then implement requirement that all receivers be connected to phone to have additional receiver beyond the 4 tuner box. make the 4 tuner box have removable hard drive so it is same model whether dvr or not. if customer wants dvr later, send them the drive just like with removable ota module. make unit a dual drive model so if one drive crashes, send just that one and customer won't have interruption of dvr service in the meantime. put the drives behind a hinged door in front of the receiver so customers can swap easy without going to rear of receiver.

one box, dvr or not, no add'l dvr fees beyond one, no ao fees.

 

[MikeD-C05]

better model is simply to build a 4 tuner receiver. that will meet lease tuner limit. then if customer wants more rooms than that, they have to purchase and then implement requirement that all receivers be connected to phone to have additional receiver beyond the 4 tuner box. make the 4 tuner box have removable hard drive so it is same model whether dvr or not. if customer wants dvr later, send them the drive just like with removable ota module. make unit a dual drive model so if one drive crashes, send just that one and customer won't have interruption of dvr service in the meantime. put the drives behind a hinged door in front of the receiver so customers can swap easy without going to rear of receiver.

one box, dvr or not, no add'l dvr fees beyond one, no ao fees.

I agree completely. IF DISH did one whole house receiver they could eliminate the extra fees. But since we have homes with extra hd tvs , you have to be able to get the hd picture to those extra tvs. Presently the hd dual tuner dvrs do not allow you to get an extra hd picture to a second tv using coax. IF they could use it or sling media to accomplish this goal , your idea would work and be a winner. But then again DISH would still have existing subs who don't have a whole house receiver and have multiple analog or hd tvs or combination of those kind of tvs. It is a great idea for the future though and I would love to have it if it worked.

 

[SteveTJ]

Have been reading through this very interesting thread. Someone correct me if this has been brought up already. In this day and age of constant scams, why would anyone even consider giving out any information about your receivers over the phone? How do you really know the person calling is from Dish? I would never give out any info and if its that important, they can send a company official to check.

 

[Tyralak]

Then the idea would be to make it relatively painless enough that the costs can be passed along to the consumers without too much of a long term backlash. No question it would difficult and it wouldnt be cheap. But its not too different than say the phone company spending a ton of money to rewire neighborhoods and all the equpiment that goes with it... then having customers pay for it. If this kind of thing needed to be done and there was no choice in the matter, to simply stay in business the company would do it. Either that or it can say 'we cant do it' and shut down the business.

American car companies had this kind of 'we cant do it' attitude for many years because among other things it would have required too much money and hurt profits. Didnt take long for them to lose the market to all but the types of cars other foreign companies simply chose not to make. If they still commanded the markets like they once did its less likely that you and I would be shoveling them money.

OK, you completely ignored the reasons I listed in BOTH posts about why this would be impracticable, hideously expensive, and not very effective. You countered with vagueries about car companies. I assume you aren't a tech. Those of us who are know that this won't work like you think it will. The reasons I listed are very real, and make it an idea who's downside is greater than it's upside.

 

[Andrewwski]

You can't even make the argument that you should have a phone line. First, phone service shouldn't be tied to TV service.

But even if it was more cost effective to have a basic landline, as others stated, there's times where it's absolutely impossible. I've got a relative who has Dish at his cabin. He's lucky to even have electricity - he's had the land for 30+ years and they only got electric there three years ago. Forget phone service - it's just not possible. Nor is internet service - unless he were to get satellite internet at a ridiculous price. Which he wouldn't - he barely uses the internet at home anyway.

So naturally the account is tied to his cell phone. But he's only at the cabin about half the time. What happens if he's at home and they call? Now he really can't read the numbers because he's two hours away from the cabin!

I understand why Dish does audits, but they don't have a good process.

 

[jacmyoung]

...The only thing I am advocating is being up front with subs and telling them of the rules and telling them of the consequences of not complying...

But they should not have to do that. Account stacking is stealing, a person of ordinary brain power should know that.

Should I demand IRS call me before I file my return and warn me I will be audited this year?

On the other hand it would be improper/illegal if IRS determines I had underpaid taxes and wants to put me in jail or pay a big fine, without letting me appeal the decision and have a chance to tell my story.

 

[Awohar]

I agree completely. IF DISH did one whole house receiver they could eliminate the extra fees. But since we have homes with extra hd tvs , you have to be able to get the hd picture to those extra tvs. Presently the hd dual tuner dvrs do not allow you to get an extra hd picture to a second tv using coax. IF they could use it or sling media to accomplish this goal , your idea would work and be a winner. But then again DISH would still have existing subs who don't have a whole house receiver and have multiple analog or hd tvs or combination of those kind of tvs. It is a great idea for the future though and I would love to have it if it worked.

while not a perfect solution, building wi-fi adapters into the receivers would allow them to connect to many networks. the default setting could be ad-hoc network with an ssid that is some logarhythm of the account number and would be set when the equipment is activated. this way, all receivers on an account are networked together whether or not a different wireless network is present. all receivers on the account have to check in with the primary receiver or they lose their authorization. primary receivers don't have to check in with other equipment but if it is moved out of range of other equipment, those other receivers will lose authorization. resulting error message displays special phone number to call which is agents cross-trained to troubleshoot the error and to perform audit.