Installation frustrations/venting + question

[CaseLogic]

The first paragraph is just venting, if you care to read. Otherwise skip to the second paragraph So, between issues with Dish, issues with the installation contractor, and issues with our apartment complex, this install for Dish is going to take forever. We got Dish service last Monday (a little over a week ago). Tuesday, a contractor came out and couldn't find our patio (we live in a complex), so he called and said we needed it installed on our roof, and to get permission. In the mean time, they canceled our install. I called our complex, and they started jerking me around. They don't want people to get satellite because it's an "eye sore" (well f&#$ you too), so they're asking for a $500 deposit and we need $10K liability in renters insurance. We had time warner so much that we're willing to do that. So I call Dish back, and the only way to setup another installation call is to redo the WHOLE account (isn't it time for a more technologically advanced system?). So I sit through an hour long phone call where I tell them what I want again. After we do it all, and confirm the next installation date, I ask another question which she doesn't have an answer to. She puts me on hold, and the phone cuts out after 15 mins. Well, apparently they went ahead and canceled the install again, even though everything was completely finalized and confirmed, I just had a followup question. So the next day, I did the whole damn thing AGAIN. The guy came out again, examined our patio, and said we needed to get permission from the complex to mount it on the fence. So they canceled our appt again. Why do they have to cancel? I can get permission don't make me keep having to setup service over and over again. Well now I know better - I gotta get the letter from teh complex, fax it to the installers, THEN call Dish again and setup service for the 4th time in a little over a week. But my complex won't fax the letter to me... they want the money before they hand over the letter. Which puts me off a bit, they obviously know we want dish, and they're treatnig us like we're gonna skip out on the deposit. What, like we can hide the fact we're getting dish when we just got the permission slip from you? So now I have to wait until tomorrow, get the money, get the paper, fax it, call dish, and hopefully this will be it.

AT ANY RATE, the only real place we can have our dish setup is on our fence. It faces the south, and has a LoS to the southeast. However, we have a car port in the way (its very close). Someone told me it's not a big deal for them to prop the satellite up on maybe like a 1 foot pole or something to get a better line of sight. Is this common? Possible? It's very close and it would probably need no more than 1 foot of clearance above the top of our fence to get the proper LoS.

 

[CaseLogic]

Oh, also, I have a question about cabling. We have 4 TV's... 2 HD and 2 SD. One HDTV is downstairs, the other 3 are upstairs. We're going to get 2 dual receivers for the 4 TV's total. Do they need to run special cabling through the apartment, or can they use the pre-existing cable outlets that are in each room? I'm not quite sure how all that works, or if thats possible.

 

[Liquidforce88]

I hate to say it but call a local installer. The techs that Dish is going to send out are not going to like doing apartment installs. They require alot of BS dealing with the complex, and Dish requires them to meet a certain code. Most apartments can't meet the code so most installers try to cancel the job in a way that won't get the customer pissed at them.

An independant retailer can do some things that the DNSC or RSP installers can't get away with. Things such as custom mounts, not grounding the system, the time to run cable in a way that wont upset the complex. Also be prepared to pay for this instal, as it probably won't be a FREE one.

 

[tastim]

From your description, I'll just let you know that most likely you will have cables ran outside your place... chances of them being able to use the existing wiring is low because all the wiring for each building will be at a common point in the building... which unless you are the lucky one, is probably nowhere near where you dish will be....

The only other option is to run all the wiring in through one wall penetration and have the cables run throughout the inside of your home.

Unfortunately, this is one of the limitations of Satellite TV in apartments and Condos.... especially with 4 room installs.

 

[rcdallas]

Do as already said...

Apartments/Condos are a pain to deal with when it comes to satellite. I've pulled some dirty things to get the install done, like all of a sudden a dish appears after a heavy rain storm on a pole behind a bunch of trees that can't be seen at a condo, or unlocking the cable boxes using the existing wiring putting the dish on the other side of the building, or hiding coax in the siding of apartment buildings across 10 different units, never came back on me... not many will do that.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

I hate to say it but call a local installer. .

I agree.

 

[rich88]

I hate to say it but call a local installer. The techs that Dish is going to send out are not going to like doing apartment installs. They require alot of BS dealing with the complex, and Dish requires them to meet a certain code. Most apartments can't meet the code so most installers try to cancel the job in a way that won't get the customer pissed at them.

An independant retailer can do some things that the DNSC or RSP installers can't get away with. Things such as custom mounts, not grounding the system, the time to run cable in a way that wont upset the complex. Also be prepared to pay for this instal, as it probably won't be a FREE one.

+1

Dish slammed the door shut on DNS doing (or not doing) whatever it took to get an apartment job in.

Dish expects apartments to be up to code the same as it expects houses and mobile homes, which is nearly impossible

 

[mikethedishguy]

Multi Family housing is not fun for any one. The Management company don't like dishes on the complex because of the supposed risk. The installer because the job never looks really clean, and the customer because it will be frustrating. The reasons for this are largely because of two documents
1. OTAR which is from the FCC and it defines the rights of the MFD dweller and Satellite dish's.
2. National Electric code. which defines how a dish should installed on a home (though It states that grounding on a MFD is unlikely to be correctly done).

 

[peaked]

I thought the new paperwork made the customer responsible for dealing with the apartment management.Something they sign that says they take responsibility.Don't make me go out to the van!

 

[topcat0399]

hate to be a critic but.........

really, the OP needs to work out the details of the install with his management compnay BEFORE involving Dish or any techs for gods sake. what a waste of everyones time and money!

If I was the dispatching office, I would be cancelling your work order too! Our office AND THE TECH takes a "hit" from every new account that gets scheduled and doesnt go in. This costs the tech money dude! You did it to them TWICE already.

I know you really really want the service but, youre messing with peoples lives here.

 

[rich88]

hate to be a critic but.........

really, the OP needs to work out the details of the install with his management compnay BEFORE involving Dish or any techs for gods sake. what a waste of everyones time and money!

If I was the dispatching office, I would be cancelling your work order too! Our office AND THE TECH takes a "hit" from every new account that gets scheduled and doesnt go in. This costs the tech money dude! You did it to them TWICE already.

I know you really really want the service but, youre messing with peoples lives here.

You're right, but in defense of the customer (the OP), that's not his problem how Dish conducts its "internal" business.
That being said, it is definitely screws the techs how Dish counts cancellations against them.

If the customer doesn't show, how is that our fault?

If the customer's closing falls thru on his new house, how is that our fault??

If the customers power isn't turned-on yet, how is that our fault?

If the customer doesn't have their TVs, how is that our fault?

And this is even after "pre-calling" them.

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

hate to be a critic but.........

really, the OP needs to work out the details of the install with his management compnay BEFORE involving Dish or any techs for gods sake. what a waste of everyones time and money!

If I was the dispatching office, I would be cancelling your work order too! Our office AND THE TECH takes a "hit" from every new account that gets scheduled and doesnt go in. This costs the tech money dude! You did it to them TWICE already.

I know you really really want the service but, youre messing with peoples lives here.

Which is all bs from dish network that they need to fix. Like the customer knows that it costs them. The dish system doesnt take into account a little thing called real life. He just wants to get satellite tv installed and is getting jerked around. I dont blame him it all for being ticked. I went through all this hassle when I lived in a apartment as well. Finally I just bought a dish and did it myself to save all the hassle. I agree a local retailer will be much more likely to help you. Dish internal has so many bs policies that a tech can be hit for anything and is just a hinderence.

 

[dishcomm]

The first paragraph is just venting, if you care to read. Otherwise skip to the second paragraph So, between issues with Dish, issues with the installation contractor, and issues with our apartment complex, this install for Dish is going to take forever. We got Dish service last Monday (a little over a week ago). Tuesday, a contractor came out and couldn't find our patio (we live in a complex), so he called and said we needed it installed on our roof, and to get permission. In the mean time, they canceled our install. I called our complex, and they started jerking me around. They don't want people to get satellite because it's an "eye sore" (well f&#$ you too), so they're asking for a $500 deposit and we need $10K liability in renters insurance. We had time warner so much that we're willing to do that. So I call Dish back, and the only way to setup another installation call is to redo the WHOLE account (isn't it time for a more technologically advanced system?). So I sit through an hour long phone call where I tell them what I want again. After we do it all, and confirm the next installation date, I ask another question which she doesn't have an answer to. She puts me on hold, and the phone cuts out after 15 mins. Well, apparently they went ahead and canceled the install again, even though everything was completely finalized and confirmed, I just had a followup question. So the next day, I did the whole damn thing AGAIN. The guy came out again, examined our patio, and said we needed to get permission from the complex to mount it on the fence. So they canceled our appt again. Why do they have to cancel? I can get permission don't make me keep having to setup service over and over again. Well now I know better - I gotta get the letter from teh complex, fax it to the installers, THEN call Dish again and setup service for the 4th time in a little over a week. But my complex won't fax the letter to me... they want the money before they hand over the letter. Which puts me off a bit, they obviously know we want dish, and they're treatnig us like we're gonna skip out on the deposit. What, like we can hide the fact we're getting dish when we just got the permission slip from you? So now I have to wait until tomorrow, get the money, get the paper, fax it, call dish, and hopefully this will be it.

AT ANY RATE, the only real place we can have our dish setup is on our fence. It faces the south, and has a LoS to the southeast. However, we have a car port in the way (its very close). Someone told me it's not a big deal for them to prop the satellite up on maybe like a 1 foot pole or something to get a better line of sight. Is this common? Possible? It's very close and it would probably need no more than 1 foot of clearance above the top of our fence to get the proper LoS.

As a tech my jopb is to serve the customer as best I can. Apartments are a PITA...So many retsrictions that prevent us from doing our job.
Most complexes here do not allow the dish to be permanently attached in any way to any part of the structure. Of couse there is absolutely no drilling. Also, because of the lock boxes covering the termination point of the existing wiring we cannot access the pre wire. And most complxes forbid it anyway. Next, most apatment complxes follow the FCC rules and allow dish placement only within the exclusive area rented by the tenant ( patio or balcony)..ANd of course therre are complexes that forbid satallite antennas entirely. And before anyone goes of, yes that's legal. I checked. The property belongs to the owner. The owner has absolute authority over appertunances. The real estate definition of that is anything attached or placed upon a property that is not permanently attached and is not therefore real property..
ANyway, that argument aside. This is what I do. I go to the apartment mgmnt office first to discover just what it is they will allow or disallow. At that point I make my way to the rented unit.
This eliminates all the grey area. I know what I can do and if the situation allows, it goes in. If it's not possble, I must tell the customer the bad news. It's that simple.......Sorry about your inconveniences. But your tech should have known ahead of time if he could mount the dish where it needs to go . He could do this by asking the mgr a few questions before he arrives at your unit.

 

[dishcomm]

I thought the new paperwork made the customer responsible for dealing with the apartment management.Something they sign that says they take responsibility.Don't make me go out to the van!

NO WAY...in this state and neghboring SC, tenant laws deal mainly with leases. In the lease there are things the tenant must do and others he cannot do. Other than that tenants have little liability. That said, if a tenant allows a sat install and the mgmnt objects, the only recourse the mgmnt has is to remove the dish. Any damage, drill penetratrions ,etc, the mgmnt must seek a claim vs the installer, not the tenant. So until those laws are chaged no piece of paper that disagres with state law is going to matter to me. So if Dish makes up a waiver ,it's moot. By law the tenant cannot assume responsibility.

 

[dishcomm]

Which is all bs from dish network that they need to fix. Like the customer knows that it costs them. The dish system doesnt take into account a little thing called real life. He just wants to get satellite tv installed and is getting jerked around. I dont blame him it all for being ticked. I went through all this hassle when I lived in a apartment as well. Finally I just bought a dish and did it myself to save all the hassle. I agree a local retailer will be much more likely to help you. Dish internal has so many bs policies that a tech can be hit for anything and is just a hinderence.

Yer right. Customer is geting jerked around. But the problem is between Dish and the customer. Or at least it should be, The moment a tech gets that w/o, he is in the middle of it. We as techs are the last line of defense. We are supposed to fix all the problems. We are expected to be a liason fo Dish and a secondary sales person for the retailer. Then we have to deal with the customer's needs. The latter should be our only resonsibility..
So here's the deal. When a customer no shows, or hasn't moved into their new home yet or has not closed or has no tv's or lives in a restirctive apartment community or any other number of ridiculous occurances WE are responsible. And that responsibility shows up on two fronts. One is the staitistics Dish keeps. The other is the loss of income and expense of wear and tear on our vehicles and fuel expenses.

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

Yer right. Customer is geting jerked around. But the problem is between Dish and the customer. Or at least it should be, The moment a tech gets that w/o, he is in the middle of it. We as techs are the last line of defense. We are supposed to fix all the problems. We are expected to be a liason fo Dish and a secondary sales person for the retailer. Then we have to deal with the customer's needs. The latter should be our only resonsibility..
So here's the deal. When a customer no shows, or hasn't moved into their new home yet or has not closed or has no tv's or lives in a restirctive apartment community or any other number of ridiculous occurances WE are responsible. And that responsibility shows up on two fronts. One is the staitistics Dish keeps. The other is the loss of income and expense of wear and tear on our vehicles and fuel expenses.

Trust me I know what you mean. As a former DNS tech I saw my fair of ahole customers that were a PITA. When the stack ranking came out things just got worse. I was always torn because I wanted to get a system in for a customer but yet there were too many potentional problems that came up as a tech which we were expected to solve. With the stack rankings I said enough is enough when my pay got affected for things outside my control. In all its a crappy system for both the customer and the tech. All dish cares about is profit, not the customer or the techs IMO.

 

[Quantum]

Yep, in fact we are now getting FINED for recalls.

Customer can't understand the remote, or changed their mind about the receiver location, or the receiver has an intermittent, and calls in a new service call after we'd been there -- they revoke our pay for the original service call/install, and also fine us in the amount of our pay! So we have to actually pay for the privilege of doing that job!

Believe it, or not.

Murderous.

 

[lownote2]

Yep, in fact we are now getting FINED for recalls.

Customer can't understand the remote, or changed their mind about the receiver location, or the receiver has an intermittent, and calls in a new service call after we'd been there -- they revoke our pay for the original service call/install, and also fine us in the amount of our pay! So we have to actually pay for the privilege of doing that job!

Believe it, or not.

Murderous.

Exactly! Nothing better than doing a job... getting charged back for it double what you made. 2 trips to home, your gas, your time, your materials, dish still getting income from customer and laughing at us all the way to the bank. And they wonder why so many good techs have gone and they are trying desperately to hire new ones.

But more to the topic point..

Sorry for your install nightmare. Although frustrated, you seem to have the patience of a saint. I agree with the other posters.. you may be better off going with a local retailer.
It's not your fault, but as installers apartments/condos can be nightmares. I've done some, but I won't do any penetrations. The ones I have done I have been able to hook into the existing wires and be ok. Sometimes it takes forever to find which wires belong where.
I have to carry my own liability insurance, which thankfully I have never had to use. But I'm not going to put myself in a situation where the landlord comes looking at me because I installed a dish on his unit. Sounds like your management is already being a PITA which would be a large warning sign to me. It's not your fault as the tenant, but as an installer I'd walk..er..run from that job. Just a bad situation waiting to happen and as much as Dish wants your money they would throw me under the bus in a heartbeat if the landlord had any problems with the install. Just put yourself in the installers shoes.
Some people accuse us of being lazy sometimes and yes, there are lazy techs. In my situation I get paid ONLY for work completed. That means if I drive all the way to your location and spend time with you to see where to put the dish/receivers/etc and decide it can't be done I've just spent all that time for nothing. I don't like doing that because I have a family to feed, but sometimes it's a lot easier to walk away than put yourself in a bad situation.