Is it safe to assume yet that HD-Lite is here to stay?

waltinvt

waltinvt

Thread Starter
Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
3,439
1
Vermont
Just thought I'd stir this up a little since no one seems to be talking about it and the HD PQ certainly isn't getting any better.

In fact, maybe it's me but the PQ of some of the channels that were always the best (like DiscHD & Equator ) seems to have gotten worse.

I use my local OTA PBS HD as a basis for comparision because it's always been, and still is the best HD PQ I've ever seen. There was a time when Discovery HD, HDNet, Equator and Rave looked outstanding too but now they don't seem any where near as good. To me, they basically look like real "good" SD or DVD quality but not HD.

Since there isn't much chatter about HD PQ anymore I was wondering if it's just me (maybe my 622's bad or something) or have people just resigned themselves to a lessor grade of HD.
 
J

jmcgee_jr

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 3, 2004
219
0
Kirkland, WA
Wow walt you bought a 622 :). I wish I had a way to get soem OTA PBS now that the weather is warming up I am giong to get up on the roof and see if I can get anythign better then 50% with my 8bay CM. I never got a lock with it on my back porch but who knows with it being about 20FT higher up maybe I can. I doubt it but who knows :). I still have that Dish 6000 box that I bought off ebay to use for OTA pickup. And you know whats funny I compared my Charter to dish on the day that I got it. And omg charters digital is WAYYYY less compressed then dish's is. I tried my 811 via coax svideo component and DVI to make sure but it doesnt hold a candle to the charters. Thier Analog is very good too. Im really glad I made the choice to get better internet yeah I dont get any HD with charter now but im saving about 30 bucks amonth btw changing to cable for HSI and TV. Hd will come here in like 4 years LOL.
 
Ilya

Ilya

XXI Century Explorer
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Lifetime Supporter
Feb 16, 2004
24,656
10,415
NE OH
DirecTV, followed by some cable companies, and now Dish Network are trying to make us accept HD-Lite instead of True-HD as a new "industry standard". They hope that we will soon get used to it and forget that HD can look much better. In fact, many HD newbies who just got their HDTV sets will enjoy the PQ, thinking that this is as good as it gets...
Hopefully the PQ of HD-DVD later this month and Blu-ray this summer will blow every one away and demonstrate how HD should really look like!
 
G

gutter

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
May 26, 2004
1,510
0
I have to agree with you about the change in Discovery and the other channels. They look ok but don't have the snap they once did. I have not seen any reports that Dish has changed Discovery to HDlite. Those that have measurements of this sort of thing, I hope would report. I also use my OTA PBS stations as my measure. I have my 622 on order to replace my 942. I wish someone would be able to tell us what is going on technically with the HD channels. I hate paying more for less. That is not a deal.
 
Jim S.

Jim S.

When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes
Lifetime Supporter
Jan 2, 2006
5,481
981
FN11od
Maybe the resolution is the same but the bitrate has been lowered? I haven't looked at the transponder assignments lately, but doesn't Dish put quite a few channels on a transponder these days? My cable company is just getting into HD but so far they've got a maximum of 2 HD channels per QAM256 channel, even for locals. Unfortunately their SD channels have up to 11 [yikes!] per physical channel and I don't envision it getting any better when they start digital simulcasting soon. The SD PQ is about what I remember Dish having when I cancelled them concurrent with the last cable upgrade about 5 years ago, the HD PQ I've only seen on other people's sets so far since I'm still trying to decide whether to pay the cable company's ridiculous price or go back to Dish but it looks OK as far as I can tell. I've not actually seen any of Dish's HD yet, but now you guys are making me wonder whether I should stay with cable. (In any case, I'm not switching til Dish gets the bugs out of the 622 and makes up their mind to do HD DNS.)
 
waltinvt

waltinvt

Thread Starter
Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
3,439
1
Vermont
Ilya said:
DirecTV, followed by some cable companies, and now Dish Network are trying to make us accept HD-Lite instead of True-HD as a new "industry standard". They hope that we will soon get used to it and forget that HD can look much better. In fact, many HD newbies who just got their HDTV sets will enjoy the PQ, thinking that this is as good as it gets...

That's the trouble - nobody's complaining anymore. There was a big bitchin blitz durning which Dish & Voom said this, that and the other thing and basically blamed it on a fiber issue that WAS being worked on. Personally I think it was all smoke & mirrors to take the pressure off until things calmed down. Dish figured we'd all get so distracted with the launch of MPEG4 receivers and new channels that we'd stop complaining about PQ and they were right.

Think about it, Dish currently has no incentive to improve HD PQ. By the end of this year, those of us that remember what real HD looks like will be in the minority and Dish knows if we don't like it, there's not a whole lot we can do about it. All they cared was that we stopped the noise about it while they launched their new channel promos (which is made partially possible by squeezing the other channels).

I think it's safe to say that Dish has embraced the "quantity over quality" philosophy - at least for now. Maybe someday, if and when bandwidth catches up with the number of stations that want it, they'll all bring PQ back into the competition. I'd have had a lot more respect for them if they'd just been more up front about it though. There are even some / many (who knows) that agree with them. Either way, any idiot knows you can't have both a zillion HD channels and still have great HD PQ. SO just level with us.
 
G

gutter

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
May 26, 2004
1,510
0
waltinvt said:
I think it's safe to say that Dish has embraced the "quantity over quality" philosophy - at least for now. Maybe someday, if and when bandwidth catches up with the number of stations that want it, they'll all bring PQ back into the competition. I'd have had a lot more respect for them if they'd just been more up front about it though. There are even some / many (who knows) that agree with them. Either way, any idiot knows you can't have both a zillion HD channels and still have great HD PQ. SO just level with us.


I couldn't agree more. Until FIOS is more wide spread and completes its promise, real HD quality will be a memory to most of us. Those getting sets now, don't really know what they could be seeing.
 
long_time_DNC

long_time_DNC

Politically Incorrect
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Apr 24, 2004
12,577
1,601
Pacific Northwest, where it rains a lot...
Unfortunately, this is true. Until HD-DVD and Blu-Ray start their format war and the players reach a price-point that most consumers will buy into it, the majority of consumers don't and won't know what true HD looks like.

However, once it does reach a lower price and is more afforadable to the average consumer, then cable and E* and D* will have to do something as the PQ issue will arise once again, as it should.
 
M

mzopinionated

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 3, 2006
66
0
The dish 211 does not even have an option to set for 1040P so even your local ota's are HD lite.
 
M

mzopinionated

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 3, 2006
66
0
Sorry! meant to say 1080P like on a 1920x1080p hdtv. when I set up my 211 the best I can choose is 720P.
 
H

HDTVFanAtic

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 23, 2005
1,973
0
You've really lost me.

If your TV set can do 1080, why aren't you setting it to 1080i?
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
May 5, 2005
3,601
1
Chicago-Milwaukee Region
If you have a new set that can display 1920x1080p, then it expects you to feed it a 1080i signal, then it will line double it to 1080p.

Nobody is broadcasting in 1080p, so of course there is no output option on a HD receiver for it. Besides, you wouldn't want the cheap Dish receiver to do the 1080i to 1080p conversion, you want the high end circuits in your HDTV doing that.
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
May 5, 2005
3,601
1
Chicago-Milwaukee Region
Technically, anyone changing their subscription to a metallic pack is throwing their support to HD-lite. After all, they are choosing to give Dish another $5/month and get another 5 HD-lite VOOM channels.

Since people seem to be doing this in large numbers, the message to Dish's execs looks pretty clear.
 
bdemz

bdemz

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 8, 2004
199
0
I Have Not Forgotten

I for one have not forgotten. I have a 942 and 921 and will not be upgrading at all. I am waiting to see what happens with any new launch of channels.

Once FIOS becomes available, I will be switching.

I have stated many times, paying for HD-Lite should be a crime. I should be called enhanced SD not HD or HD-Lite. A comparison would be if you are paying for the NHL channel and all you get is highlights.

If anyone quetions the fact that they cannot see the difference then they need to compare an OTA with antenna HD channel and the DISH network garbage.

LOST on OTA antenna is incredible!!
 
waltinvt

waltinvt

Thread Starter
Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
3,439
1
Vermont
Tom Bombadil said:
Technically, anyone changing their subscription to a metallic pack is throwing their support to HD-lite. After all, they are choosing to give Dish another $5/month and get another 5 HD-lite VOOM channels.

Since people seem to be doing this in large numbers, the message to Dish's execs looks pretty clear.

The pendulium Always swings in both directions and now that it's swinging in Dish's direction, it obvious they're taking avantage of it.

Personally, I don't believe Dish ever intended to do anything about HD-Lite and it was always in the plans to squeeze HD. Once "D" did it and then "E" bought out Voom, it was a given.

When everyone was screaming about HD-Lite a few months ago (Gary comes to mind), Dish did their little dance until the smoke cleared but never gave up anything.

It's all just like the dance they've been doing around HD DNS for over a year now. They never intended to do it but don't have the guts to say so. They'll just dance around the issue, with no qualms about lying if they have to. This is really one of the few areas left where "D" still has the edge.

It's a shame too because Dish has got all the marbles at the moment and they've never had a better chance to shut the door on "D".

Just being more honest and forthcoming with their customers would be a start. It won't be easy because of years of deception but if Dish could convince customers that they really are committed to:

1. Raising the quality bar back up for HD.
2. Insuring every single Dish customer will have access to the HD versions of the major networks with HD DNS now and HD LiLs within a year.
3. Dedicating all available resources to making the 211 & 622 the best, most reliable receivers on the market.
4. Improving customer service.

They really do all this and they'd sew up the market. But they won't because that would take far-sighted vision and Dish's has always been to near-sighted.
 
mdonnelly

mdonnelly

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Aug 26, 2004
8,117
2,865
Mustang, OK
Actually, I upgraded because ESPN2-HD has half of ESPN's baseball games, and because I want a backup source for my locals in HD.
 
DucTape

DucTape

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Jan 20, 2005
365
0
South Eastern PA.
Actually, it will not disappear, like many have stated with the HD video selections that will come soon and good OTA feeds, people will have a bench mark to keep ourselves educated.
 
waltinvt

waltinvt

Thread Starter
Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
3,439
1
Vermont
bdemz said:
If anyone quetions the fact that they cannot see the difference then they need to compare an OTA with antenna HD channel and the DISH network garbage.

LOST on OTA antenna is incredible!!

And why do you think Dish is NOT making it easy to rely on OTA HD ?
This is why there's only one OTA tuner.
This is why you can't get EPG info for OTA without buying Dish's LiLs (and even then you don't get them all) and therefore have to set manual timers.
This is why they've adopted things like "enabling" fees.
This is why most other digital receivers (built in or dedicated STBs) have stronger tuners.

Dish can't compete with OTA HD so they sure as hell arn't going to encourage you to watch it instead of their channels.
 
N

Nice2know

Member
Feb 28, 2005
13
0
Augusta, Georgia
HD's PQ!

I have been able to compare the the MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 and came away with a "subjective" view point the MPEG-2 provided a more VIVID COLOR and less artifacts during rapid scene changes. BUT, if you get the chance to test your HDTV monitors useing HDnet's "HDTV CALIBRATION" feed, you may find that all of the Dish HD feeds are OK. Normally, on Tuesdays at 6:50am EST is when HDnet provides this HDTV CALIBRATION by ZENITH feed. When I used a CRT type HDTV monitor (ADVENT), the HDTV test were WOW! The same test on my HDTV projector monitors, received a pass, but not as spectacular. I guess this goes back to the discovery that all the HDTV's sold prior to 2006 had the proper HDTV "Display Panels" but the internal circuits were CHEAP and only pass a 540 resolution rather than 1080!?
 

Similar threads

JoeSp
Replies
40
Views
4K
mruk69
mruk69
M
Replies
6
Views
2K
SimpleSimon
SimpleSimon
chelseafan
Replies
31
Views
3K
Kirby Baker
Kirby Baker
K
Replies
26
Views
4K
Jordan420
J
hazmat626
Replies
6
Views
2K
Smith P.
S

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Top