Judge Rejects New (TiVo) Trial for EchoStar

Poke

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Dec 3, 2003
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I think this is so stupid if they are going to hit Dish they need to do it to everyone else. If Direct or any other provider has this feature that Tivo is crying about then they should do the same to everyone else.


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061128/tivo_echostar.html?.v=1

udge Denies EchoStar Request for New Trial in TiVo Patent Case


DALLAS (AP) -- A patent dispute between EchoStar Communications Corp., the owner of the Dish satellite-TV network, and TiVo Inc., is headed for the federal appeals court in Washington after a judge rejected EchoStar's bid for a new trial.

Judge David Folsom said Monday that EchoStar failed to raise new issues in its appeal for another trial.

In April, a jury found that EchoStar made and sold digital video recorders that infringed on Tivo's patented technology for pausing live television and recording one show while watching another. Folsom, who presided over that trial, ordered EchoStar to pay $89.6 million in damages -- more than the $74 million the jury had awarded.

The case now goes to the federal appeals court in Washington, which temporarily blocked Folsom's order that EchoStar disable about 4 million of its set-top boxes. Dish is the nation's second-largest satellite-TV provider, behind DirecTV.

EchoStar didn't expect Folsom to reverse his earlier rulings against a new trial, said Kathie Gonzalez, a spokeswoman for the Englewood, Colo.-based company.

"Now that the last phase of the trial is complete our appeal can proceed," she said. "We look forward to ultimate vindication through that process."

Morgan Chu, an attorney for Alviso, Calif.-based TiVo, said the company was pleased with Folsom's ruling to reject a new trial.

"TiVo believes it will prevail on appeal," Chu said.

In trading Tuesday afternoon, TiVo shares fell 10 cents to $6.16 on the Nasdaq Stock Market, while EchoStar shares gained 25 cents to $35.71 on the New York Stock Exchange.
 
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Hmm well if they have a licensing deal then they should have offered it to Dish just like everyone else. If they did and Dish is not agreeing to the terms then thats another thing.
 
Uh, TiVo did offer licensing to Dish Network just like everyone else. It appears that when Dish Network decided to do their in-house version of the TiVo DVR, they used technology which TiVo patented.

That is why the lawsuit came about; that is why the jury found Dish Network guilty of violating TiVo's patents.
 
Can a moderator add something about TiVo to the subject? I thought this was about the Distants case and I'm sure others will think the same.
 
I still think we are affected. Supposedly only the original Dishplayer users are spared (are there more than 25,000 of these even in use anymore?)
 
Uh, TiVo did offer licensing to Dish Network just like everyone else. It appears that when Dish Network decided to do their in-house version of the TiVo DVR, they used technology which TiVo patented.

That is why the lawsuit came about; that is why the jury found Dish Network guilty of violating TiVo's patents.

Now that the distants issue is almost behind us, I suppose you've got your next topic to add common sense and facts. Your posts have been very informative.:hatsoff:
 
Uh, TiVo did offer licensing to Dish Network just like everyone else. It appears that when Dish Network decided to do their in-house version of the TiVo DVR, they used technology which TiVo patented.

That is why the lawsuit came about; that is why the jury found Dish Network guilty of violating TiVo's patents.

There is the broader problem with the issuance of overly broad patents though too. IMO, the TiVo patent's are too broad and as such anyone creating a DVR would be infringent, even if literally no TiVo technology was used.

Let's be honest, the concept of storing a digital datastream for future use is not a new one which is what everything but analog OTA is doing with Dish's (or DirecTV) DVRs. All of the satellite streams are digital as are OTA HD streams.

Skip ahead (and back) X Seconds is a bit trickier as the data rate is variable, but you have to ask yourself if it's truly novel to do this on a digital datastream. That's supposed to be one of the fundamental checks on whether something is capable of being patented. This is borderline for patent IMO.

The TiVo UI certainly wasn't copied.

Now granted, I am not a patent lawyer and I don't play one on the internet. I've just had some of my work reviewed for patents. Only one made it past internal review.

Cheers,
 
What about Microsoft Media Center? How about a VCR? This should be a common technology that is free for anyone to implement. My VCR can fast foward and rewind while I'm watching a movie. So can my DVD player. This is just an attempt for TiVo to get back in to the game. I'm sure this will all result in a settlement between Dish and TiVo.
 
It should've resulted in a settlement long before now. When you get this many court rulings against you, you do one of two things (neither of which E* has done): you 1) get better lawyers and pull-in some favors or 2) you settle up and pay what you owe. Not being letigious myself, I would suggest option 2...but who knows what Charlie's going to do...
 
It should've resulted in a settlement long before now. When you get this many court rulings against you, you do one of two things (neither of which E* has done): you 1) get better lawyers and pull-in some favors or 2) you settle up and pay what you owe. Not being letigious myself, I would suggest option 2...but who knows what Charlie's going to do...


Here's a guess -- sometime within the next several months, Charlie will come on his CHarlieChat or Techchat, looking like a whipped puppy and explain that , "gee, I guess we pushed this too far and I apologize to all you loyal Dish Network customers. I'm sorry to tell you that in "xx" days you'll all lose your DVR service because the court didn't see it our way. But please call your Congressman and turn on channel 240 to see a video of Jim telling you how to dial a phone. Can we roll that video please ?"
 
Nah, he'll stall for another year or two until all the offending units have been upgraded to non-offending units....

WORSE case, he buys Tivo for a song as they are dying. They are giving them away now, trying to live on the subscription fees. They may not be long for this world....
 
Here's a guess -- sometime within the next several months, Charlie will come on his CHarlieChat or Techchat, looking like a whipped puppy and explain that , "gee, I guess we pushed this too far and I apologize to all you loyal Dish Network customers. I'm sorry to tell you that in "xx" days you'll all lose your DVR service because the court didn't see it our way. But please call your Congressman and turn on channel 240 to see a video of Jim telling you how to dial a phone. Can we roll that video please ?"

True, but those with contracts will be extremely upset and may be in a position where they can void their contract without cost. However, if it comes to that I would expect Dish to redevelop their software to comply with any rulings that the courts impose on them.
 
Here's a guess -- sometime within the next several months, Charlie will come on his CHarlieChat or Techchat, looking like a whipped puppy and explain that , "gee, I guess we pushed this too far and I apologize to all you loyal Dish Network customers. I'm sorry to tell you that in "xx" days you'll all lose your DVR service because the court didn't see it our way. But please call your Congressman and turn on channel 240 to see a video of Jim telling you how to dial a phone. Can we roll that video please ?"

He'll only do that if he wants to fold-up Dish Network and call it quits. The DVR has changed television viewing for millions of people, even moreso than the VCR did. If he wants to lose literally millions of subs to D* or cable, then sure, he'll turn off DVR functionality, but I'm not entirely sure he's that dumb.
 
That would seem to make perfect sense from Dish's standpoint. First, the lawsuit would go away. Second, Dish could now reap the monthly subscription costs for providing nothing more than essentially TV guide programming data to the boxes, third, it would allow Charlie to get back at Murdoch as TIVO boxes have been their bread and butter to Directv subs., and fourth, it would give E* the impetus of raising everyone else's DVR fees to match what current TIVO owners are paying now.
 

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