Legal Placement of Dishes on Owner's Property

Pete Ratowski

SatelliteGuys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Aug 15, 2007
48
6
Tallahassee
I need some help and I need to be brought up to date on placement of a dish on my property. I installed my first dish for 119 in July 1997. For an almost perfect signal I placed it in a flowerbed on the corner of my house. Lot size is an acre. Side peak of the roof is at least 40 feet off the ground. The Dish was really hidden real well behind the shrubs and unless you were looking for it you probably never ever even knew where it was located. We live in Killearn Estates which is a golf course community with mega mega rules on the northern side of Tallahassee. Years later, I swapped the dish for a Dish 500 for 110 and 119. Still hard to see. Later, for HD we had to add a second dish around back aimed toward 61.5. Then later we put up a new Dish 1000.2 behind the house aimed over the house to get 110. 119, and 129. Now it is virtually impossible to see the dish. But since we are on street that curves around golf course with another street in front of a neighbors house next to me, if you are a real busy body looking for trouble, you might see the dish. I have helped at least 20 other families install dishes over the years and most of them are not as hidden as mine. Believe me there is no way I would ever put a dish in the middle of my front yard. Now the problem, the Killearn Homes Association is now notifying dish owners that we now have to come before them for approval for our dishes. These people have a track record of going after Bell-South Celluar and not only getting a giant tower removed from property down on the US319 but also received $35,000 in damages plus their attorney's fees. The tower was not even in our community. Next to us on land that somehow they said had our same deed restrictions. Walgreens even had to redesign their building down on US319 and put in almost all bricks and other items that significantly increased building costs to get the KHA off their back and out of court. I have tried to find everything relating to this problem on the web that can help us fight these people. Do any of you folks know of anything that might be of use to help us get them off our back. I would appreciate any help we can get from ya'll. Anybody had or know of this problem and how it turned out for the Dish owners.
 

bassist

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 2, 2008
189
0
South Carolina
I need some help and I need to be brought up to date on placement of a dish on my property. I installed my first dish for 119 in July 1997. For an almost perfect signal I placed it in a flowerbed on the corner of my house. Lot size is an acre. Side peak of the roof is at least 40 feet off the ground. The Dish was really hidden real well behind the shrubs and unless you were looking for it you probably never ever even knew where it was located. We live in Killearn Estates which is a golf course community with mega mega rules on the northern side of Tallahassee. Years later, I swapped the dish for a Dish 500 for 110 and 119. Still hard to see. Later, for HD we had to add a second dish around back aimed toward 61.5. Then later we put up a new Dish 1000.2 behind the house aimed over the house to get 110. 119, and 129. Now it is virtually impossible to see the dish. But since we are on street that curves around golf course with another street in front of a neighbors house next to me, if you are a real busy body looking for trouble, you might see the dish. I have helped at least 20 other families install dishes over the years and most of them are not as hidden as mine. Believe me there is no way I would ever put a dish in the middle of my front yard. Now the problem, the Killearn Homes Association is now notifying dish owners that we now have to come before them for approval for our dishes. These people have a track record of going after Bell-South Celluar and not only getting a giant tower removed from property down on the US319 but also received $35,000 in damages plus their attorney's fees. The tower was not even in our community. Next to us on land that somehow they said had our same deed restrictions. Walgreens even had to redesign their building down on US319 and put in almost all bricks and other items that significantly increased building costs to get the KHA off their back and out of court. I have tried to find everything relating to this problem on the web that can help us fight these people. Do any of you folks know of anything that might be of use to help us get them off our back. I would appreciate any help we can get from ya'll. Anybody had or know of this problem and how it turned out for the Dish owners.

Somewhere, on the FTA section of the forum, there's a copy of the FCC rules that over ride any local, state or HOA regulation on dishes. Iceburg (who IS a HOA president) has dealt with similar issues at his neighborhood. You might want to post this question over in the general FTA forum or the FTA Shack forum.

My understanding is that you're allowed up to a 1.0 meter dish placed at a location on your property where you can receive an uninterrupted signal.
 

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
804
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas

The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.
 

T_N_T

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 9, 2006
347
0
Hendersonville,TN
If I understand that all right it means you can tell the HOA to take a hike if thats how you get your signal as long as its a certain size. It is even against the law for them to prohibit that. If they ever give you a hard time I would present them with a copy of OTARD.
 

navychop

Member of the Month - July 2014!
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Jul 20, 2005
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Except for the safety exception, which generally means over 12', IIRC.
 

topcat5

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 19, 2006
94
0
I'm surprised there are still HOAs that believe they have the ability to tell people to take down their antennas because they don't like the look of it. I had this issue with my HOA about 12 years ago and once I made them aware of the law, they immediately dropped it.
 

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
804
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
the Killearn Homes Association is now notifying dish owners that we now have to come before them for approval for our dishes..

This is the portion of the Q=A section of the OTARD rules that apply to this question.
Q: What types of restrictions unreasonably delay or prevent viewers from using an antenna? Can an antenna user be required to obtain prior approval before installing his antenna?
A: A local restriction that prohibits all antennas would prevent viewers from receiving signals, and is prohibited by the Commission's rule. Procedural requirements can also unreasonably delay installation, maintenance or use of an antenna covered by this rule. For example, local regulations that require a person to obtain a permit or approval prior to installation create unreasonable delay and are generally prohibited. Permits or prior approval necessary to serve a legitimate safety or historic preservation purpose may be permissible. Although a simple notification process might be permissible, such a process cannot be used as a prior approval requirement and may not delay or increase the cost of installation. The burden is on the association to show that a notification process does not violate our rule.

Q: What restrictions prevent a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal? Can a homeowners association or other restricting entity establish enforceable preferences for antenna locations?
A: For antennas designed to receive analog signals, such as TVBS, a requirement that an antenna be located where reception would be impossible or substantially degraded is prohibited by the rule. However, a regulation requiring that antennas be placed where they are not visible from the street would be permissible if this placement does not prevent reception of an acceptable quality signal or impose unreasonable expense or delay. For example, if installing an antenna in the rear of the house costs significantly more than installation on the side of the house, then such a requirement would be prohibited. If, however, installation in the rear of the house does not impose unreasonable expense or delay or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal, then the restriction is permissible and the viewer must comply.
The acceptable quality signal standard is different for devices designed to receive digital signals, such as DBS antennas, digital broadband radio service antennas, digital television ("DTV") antennas, and digital fixed wireless antennas. For a digital antenna to receive or transmit an acceptable quality signal, the antenna must be installed where it has an unobstructed, direct view of the satellite or other device from which signals are received or to which signals are to be transmitted. Unlike analog antennas, digital antennas, even in the presence of sufficient over-the-air signal strength, will at times provide no picture or sound unless they are placed and oriented properly.
 

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
299
48
Mankato, MN
I dont have much to add but to answer one question

Iceburg (who IS a HOA president) has dealt with similar issues at his neighborhood.

yep had to deal with them this past summer. I could type the whole thing out but here is the thread
http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-shack/220478-me-otard-vs-neighbor-hee-hee.html

Basically the rule is simple. If its your exclusive area you are covered under OTARD as long as the dish is under a meter. They can tell you where to place it, but if you cant get signal there then OTARD helps you
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
I need some help and I need to be brought up to date on placement of a dish on my property. I installed my first dish for 119 in July 1997. For an almost perfect signal I placed it in a flowerbed on the corner of my house. Lot size is an acre. Side peak of the roof is at least 40 feet off the ground. The Dish was really hidden real well behind the shrubs and unless you were looking for it you probably never ever even knew where it was located. We live in Killearn Estates which is a golf course community with mega mega rules on the northern side of Tallahassee. Years later, I swapped the dish for a Dish 500 for 110 and 119. Still hard to see. Later, for HD we had to add a second dish around back aimed toward 61.5. Then later we put up a new Dish 1000.2 behind the house aimed over the house to get 110. 119, and 129. Now it is virtually impossible to see the dish. But since we are on street that curves around golf course with another street in front of a neighbors house next to me, if you are a real busy body looking for trouble, you might see the dish. I have helped at least 20 other families install dishes over the years and most of them are not as hidden as mine. Believe me there is no way I would ever put a dish in the middle of my front yard. Now the problem, the Killearn Homes Association is now notifying dish owners that we now have to come before them for approval for our dishes. These people have a track record of going after Bell-South Celluar and not only getting a giant tower removed from property down on the US319 but also received $35,000 in damages plus their attorney's fees. The tower was not even in our community. Next to us on land that somehow they said had our same deed restrictions. Walgreens even had to redesign their building down on US319 and put in almost all bricks and other items that significantly increased building costs to get the KHA off their back and out of court. I have tried to find everything relating to this problem on the web that can help us fight these people. Do any of you folks know of anything that might be of use to help us get them off our back. I would appreciate any help we can get from ya'll. Anybody had or know of this problem and how it turned out for the Dish owners.

There is a link posted below that answers all of your questions.
Print out copies for all of your busy body HOA members and mail it to them. If they insist on bugging you, tell them to pound sand and go to DC to battle with the FCC. It's not your problem.
The rules are clear. As long as your home is not in a registered national historic district, you can hang your satellite antenna fro your front door and there's not a damned thing the blue haired old biddies on your HOA board can do about it.
Do not waver. Stand up for your rights.
 

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
804
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Actually, if you read Ice's post and my post directly above this one, this is not quite right. They can tell you where to place it IF it doesn't unreasonably add to the cost AND you can receive signal at that location. :)
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
Actually, if you read Ice's post and my post directly above this one, this is not quite right. They can tell you where to place it IF it doesn't unreasonably add to the cost AND you can receive signal at that location. :)
Well.....Technically that is correct. Question, what percentage of HOA board members are going to be observant enough to recognize that particular instance. Not many ,I suspect.
In the case of the OP, the HOA is making an arbitrary ruling demanding prior approval to erecting a satellite antenna. Clearly, that violates OTARD.
 

Frank7004

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 13, 2009
715
0
Indiana
They can also tell you how to run cables, which from my experience, has been a deal buster.

My suggestion if that becomes an issue, mount it as close as possible to a gutter, run the cable through the gutter.
 

benzee1

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Feb 10, 2011
33
0
Cedar Vale, KS
this is why I will NEVER EVER own a house with HOA. I just bought my 2nd house and it took a while to find one that wasn't HOA. IMHO, anyone that would pay a few hundred dollars a month so someone can tell you that you don't really own your house or property is an idiot.
 

empiretc

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 4, 2008
1,657
51
this is why I will NEVER EVER own a house with HOA. I just bought my 2nd house and it took a while to find one that wasn't HOA. IMHO, anyone that would pay a few hundred dollars a month so someone can tell you that you don't really own your house or property is an idiot.


Agreed
 

Claude Greiner

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
13,225
3,769
Detroit - The Paris of the Midwest
I would personally go tell the HOA to go screw themselves, as nobody is going to tell me what I can and can't do on my property.

The sad part is that there are people who will get the letter from the HOA and get all scared and think they will get kicked out of their homes if they don't comply with the HOA's silly demands. They will simply comply with the letter, take their Dish down and crawl back in their little hole and get cable installed.

I would send the HOA, the FCC ruling and leave it at that.

On that note, I have yet to see one customer actually fight their HOA on this issue. It amazes me how many times I will state the law to people, tell then what they got to do, and the next thing I got the customer asking if I can call so and so on the HOA board and tell them this, or write the fricken letter to the HOA for them. ITS NOT MY JOB
 
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