Locals and Distant Net Choice

[minnow]

At this point we do not have locals available, altoough the street scuttle is that they may be coming this fall. We have distant net feeds from both NY and LA. If and when locals are made available, can we still keep the distants ? Thanks.

 

[NightRyder]

It's almost a guarantee that if you add locals when they become available, you will lose your distant networks.


NightRyder

 

[Pepper]

Didn't you have to apply for waivers from the local stations to get what you have now? If so, you should be able to keep them after locals become available, since they're already "available" over the air.

 

[TNGTony]

I will post this only once in this thread and not respond to incorrect statements attempting to "correct" me.

When one adds locals, they DO NOT automatically lose distant locals.

When one calls to add locals, the CSR looks to see whether the subscriber is qualified to recieve the channels they are adding. They DO NOT double check to see what they should not be getting.

When a new area gets locals, BY LAW, and sometimes by contract with a new local station, Dish (and DirecTV) run audits to comply with the new law. Most subscribers who already have distant nets will be allowed to keep them or chose the new local channels. NOTICE: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THE DNS SUBSCRIBER ADDED LOCALS OR NOT. But since most of the time some people add locals and then get the letter about chosing DNS or local; or people lose DNS due to standard audits, the incorrect assumption that adding locals caused the audit has taken root.

Keep in mind that Dish wants to sell you as many channels as you wish to pay for. They would sell you all 162 local markets if they could.

Adding locals (except in the case of an error by a CSR) will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever cause you to lose distant network channels. If a CSR does have an oopsie and accidentally cancels your distants, THEN you are SOL.

See ya
Tony

 

[James Long]

When a new area gets locals ... Most subscribers who already have distant nets will be allowed to keep them or chose the new local channels.

Thanks to the latest version of the law, SHVERA, that is too true. The sat provider must notify their subscribers within 60 days of locals being first offered in their community and give the customer the choice of distants OR locals.

47 USC 338 (h) as created by SHVERA
(h) ADDITIONAL NOTICES TO SUBSCRIBERS, NETWORKS, AND STATIONS CONCERNING SIGNAL CARRIAGE.—

(1) NOTICES TO AND ELECTIONS BY SUBSCRIBERS CONCERNING GRANDFATHERED SIGNALS.—
Any carrier that provides a distant signal of a network station to a subscriber pursuant section 339(a)(2)(A) shall—

(A) within 60 days after the local signal of a network station of the same television network is available pursuant to section 338, or within 60 days after the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004, whichever is later, send a notice to the subscriber—

(i) offering to substitute the local network signal for the duplicating distant network signal; and
(ii) informing the subscriber that, if the subscriber fails to respond in 60 days, the subscriber will lose the distant network signal but will be permitted to subscribe to the local network signal; and​

(B) if the subscriber—

(i) elects to substitute such local network signal within such 60 days, switch such subscriber to such local network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period; or
(ii) fails to respond within such 60 days, terminate the distant network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period.​

If you get the notice you MUST respond and choose distants or you lose them.

JL

 

[jssat]

At this point we do not have locals available, altoough the street scuttle is that they may be coming this fall. We have distant net feeds from both NY and LA. If and when locals are made available, can we still keep the distants ? Thanks.

Sounds like your safest bet would be to add them on E*'s web site or from Dish Home.

 

[NightRyder]

If a CSR does have an oopsie and accidentally cancels your distants, THEN you are SOL.

See ya
Tony

Which seems to happen way too often, and once it does, no power on earth will put them back, regardless of what the law says.

Just curious Tony, how to you reconcile your statement "Dish wants to sell you as many channels as you wish to pay for" with the fact that once the incompetent CSR removes DNS, Dish refuses to re-instate them even for a qualified subscriber? This costs them money, but they could seem to care less.


NightRyder

 

[Greg Bimson]

I will post this only once in this thread and not respond to incorrect statements attempting to "correct" me.

When one adds locals, they DO NOT automatically lose distant locals.

They do now, thanks to the SHVERA, as justalurker posted above. The caveat here is that replacement applies to "grandfathered" subscribers. If you are truly in a white area, or you have waivers, then you can have both.

 

[TNGTony]

:::Sigh:::

Read my ENTIRE post again. Then read lurker's response again.

 

[n1wbd]

:::Sigh:::

Read my ENTIRE post again. Then read lurker's response again.

Now correct me if I am wrong but are all these rules that are posted are still in the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking Stage and have NOT gone into effect are still subject to change? I looked on the FCC site and have not seen the Report and Order to make it official.

 

[NightRyder]

I'm sure Tony is right about the new law, with regard to how DNS is SUPPOSED to work, but in the real world you have Dish CSRs and if they botch this up no one will fix it. I won't let a CSR near my programming again, I lost a grandfathered discount once due to those idiots and it took a weeks worth of yelling, screaming, and the executive department to get it back.


NightRyder

 

[Greg Bimson]

Tony, I read both. Here is the confusion:

Adding locals (except in the case of an error by a CSR) will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever cause you to lose distant network channels.

(1) NOTICES TO AND ELECTIONS BY SUBSCRIBERS CONCERNING GRANDFATHERED SIGNALS.—
Any carrier that provides a distant signal of a network station to a subscriber pursuant section 339(a)(2)(A) shall—
(A) within 60 days after the local signal of a network station of the same television network is available pursuant to section 338, or within 60 days after the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004, whichever is later, send a notice to the subscriber—
(i) offering to substitute the local network signal for the duplicating distant network signal; and
(ii) informing the subscriber that, if the subscriber fails to respond in 60 days, the subscriber will lose the distant network signal but will be permitted to subscribe to the local network signal; and
(B) if the subscriber—
(i) elects to substitute such local network signal within such 60 days, switch such subscriber to such local network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period; or
(ii) fails to respond within such 60 days, terminate the distant network signal within 10 days after the end of such 60-day period.

The bolded parts in the law as quoted by justalurker is my emphasis. The problem is actually part of 47 USC 339(a)(2):

``(2) REPLACEMENT OF DISTANT SIGNALS WITH LOCAL SIGNALS.--Notwithstanding any other provision of paragraph (1), the following rules shall apply after the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004:

``(A) RULES FOR GRANDFATHERED SUBSCRIBERS TO ANALOG SIGNALS.--

``(i) FOR THOSE RECEIVING DISTANT ANALOG SIGNALS.--In the case of a subscriber of a satellite carrier who is eligible to receive the analog signal of a network station solely by reason of section 119(e) of title 17, United States Code (in this subparagraph referred to as a `distant analog signal'), and who, as of October 1, 2004, is receiving the distant analog signal of that network station, the following shall apply:

``(I) In a case in which the satellite carrier makes available to the subscriber the analog signal of a local network station affiliated with the same television network pursuant to section 338, the carrier may only provide the secondary transmissions of the distant analog signal of a station affiliated with the same network to that subscriber--

``(aa) if, within 60 days after receiving the notice of the satellite carrier under section 338(h)(1) of this Act, the subscriber elects to retain the distant analog signal; but

``(bb) only until such time as the subscriber elects to receive such local analog signal.

``(II) Notwithstanding subclause (I), the carrier may not retransmit the distant analog signal to any subscriber who is eligible to receive the analog signal of a network station solely by reason of section 119(e) of title 17, United States Code, unless such carrier, within 60 days after the date of the enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004, submits to that television network the list and statement required by subparagraph (F)(i).

I can certainly understand the confusion, as the verboseness of this law is quite challenging, even for lawyers. However, on the section I quoted, once a "grandfathered" subscriber chooses to receive their locals, their distants are to be removed. It appears there may be a grey area, however. Those sections are directly referencing the notifications to substitute the local channels for the subscribed distant network service. Since this language is hooked to the letter and the reception of it, the subscriber may be able to keep distants and locals until after the letter is received and sent back.